[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

The critical thing is the depth of the starter pinion teeth with the ring gear teeth. The aluminum casting size can be all over the map -- or not even there on most aftermarket starters. Even for stock starters, the 1/8" measurement is dependent on how frisky the guy happens to have been with the deburring tool that day when cleaning up the raw casting.

You didn't understand the measurement. It is between the flexplate tooth tip and the starter shaft. Nothing to do with the casting.
What the measurement does is match the manufacturing call out for how the starter was made as per the print.
When they make the starter gear they make it so that if the shaft it slides on is 1/8" from the tip of the flexplate tooth tip the gear will mesh correctly.
It's how the starter is checked at quality control when they make them.
The variance in the castings is why they use the gear shaft as a reference.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

It is between the flexplate tooth tip and the starter shaft.

The OP has an aftermarket mini starter. Probably doesn't have a shaft sticking out past the bendix. Drive end bearing on them is behind the bendix. No nose and shaft to do the measuring.

Clay

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

The OP has an aftermarket mini starter. Probably doesn't have a shaft sticking out past the bendix. Drive end bearing on them is behind the bendix. No nose and shaft to do the measuring.

Clay

Ahhh. Thanks Clay. I was wrong on that then. Missed that. My advice wouldn't work with a starter that you can't get to the shaft like a standard starter.
I guess you would have to use a paperclip then. Or just eyeball it and give it a try.
I just went over the thread and I still don't see anything about a mini starter.....

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

I just went over the thread and I still don't see anything about a mini starter.....

Think I read it in his build thread...Not this one. First mini broke and he was replacing it or getting it fixed.

Clay

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Think I read it in his build thread...Not this one. First mini broke and he was replacing it or getting it fixed.

Clay

Nice work Clay. Either way it's good to point out it works good for a regular starter and not a mini.
I wouldn't know that because I can fit a standard starter on all of my cars including the one with Doug's Headers. No minis.

[HWYSTR455]

My understanding is, technically, the variance of tolerances is the mount pad of the block, and potentially effected by the line bore.

It can also be impacted by flywheel/flexplate runout.

The pads on the mini starter are generally CNC cut, so doubtful they vary too much.

I just did mine recently, and the pad of the mini starter was wider than the pad on the block, and had to bevel the edge because it was making contact with the trans bell, and not seating properly. That is a Summit mini, before anyone asks.

Usually, once you've determined the stack of shims you need, you never have to do it again, just reuse the same stack on any/every starter you bolt up. (which further supports the block factor)

Ask the guys who have tried to shotgun it by mounting and testing shims in use who are using IMI mini starters, see what they say. The drive gear on the starter is considered 'sacrificial', to save the ring gear, because it's much easier to swap a starter than one of those. And the IMI gears are softer than most, or is what I have found. Others too, apparently.

.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 242177P

It's the same video you said was nice earlier. For those who haven't watched it, take note of the time in the bottom left corner. Now they can skip straight to the part where an 1/8" Allen key is used to measure.

Nice for others, I never use the Drill Bit methods as I have posted several times therefore I never watched the video.
And 64 Speed already posted that he was going to use the Paperclip method.

Why waste people's time searching for a video link when you could have easily added it to the post AGAIN. Just a comment. Don't get upset by the suggestion.

Tom V.

[track73]

I had a starter on a 400 Chevy small block that was too far away with no shims. I didn't realize you could use 1/2 a shim to bring it closer. Old too soon too late smart.

[TAQuest]

Just for reference as to what you can run into;
My standard starter and 400 block uses no shims at all to mesh properly.
My other Pontiac with a standard starter and 400 block uses no shims either.
A standard starter on the 428 I used to own used no shims at all.
The 1972 Bonneville I used to own with a 455 and standard starter used no shims at all.
My 68 Firebird with a 350 block used no shims at all.
None of the other Pontiacs I have owned used shims either.
The 302 in my 69 Z needed shims.
The 400 small block in my chevy truck uses shims.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by track73

I had a starter on a 400 Chevy small block that was too far away with no shims. I didn't realize you could use 1/2 a shim to bring it closer. Old too soon too late smart.

They have a different nose cone for the externally balanced Chevy 400 starter.
Flywheel/flexplate is special for the 400 also.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

Just for reference as to what you can run into;
My standard starter and 400 block uses no shims at all to mesh properly.
My other Pontiac with a standard starter and 400 block uses no shims either.
A standard starter on the 428 I used to own used no shims at all.
The 1972 Bonneville I used to own with a 455 and standard starter used no shims at all.
My 68 Firebird with a 350 block used no shims at all.
None of the other Pontiacs I have owned used shims either.
The 302 in my 69 Z needed shims.
The 400 small block in my chevy truck uses shims.

I would agree with that as I have never used a shim on a Manual Trans Block from the factory. Only when using a Block for a Auto Trans with a Manual Trans.

Tom V.

[track73]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

They have a different nose cone for the externally balanced Chevy 400 starter.
Flywheel/flexplate is special for the 400 also.

I knew that was the case many years back and purchased some, but I tried to locate a nose for that starter to no avail. I put on a 350 flexplate with a balance plate. I already had a 350 starter and flexplate. But looking back I wish I knew about the half shim deal.Too soon old late too smart.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

They have a different nose cone for the externally balanced Chevy 400 starter.
Flywheel/flexplate is special for the 400 also.

If I was a Chevrolet Guy, you would be one of the top guys on the list I would ask for advice, TAQuest.

Tom V.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

They have a different nose cone for the externally balanced Chevy 400 starter.

It's just just the staggered pattern that was used with the larger 168 tooth flexplate/flywheel. These tended to be viewed as "big block starters", but the truck 350s also used them.

[track73]

The 400 SBC starter I had was the one with the staggered bolt pattern. I am pretty familiar with 400 SB Chevys since I used them in my stock cars in the 80’s.

[64speed]

Well none of these methods will work for me cause I have a mini starter. It has no shaft just the teeth stick out. I pried the bendix out and it just barely contacted the flywheel so I will shim for a little more engagement and hope for the best. Would be really nice to get this right on the stand

[krisr]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Well none of these methods will work for me cause I have a mini starter. It has no shaft just the teeth stick out. I pried the bendix out and it just barely contacted the flywheel so I will shim for a little more engagement and hope for the best. Would be really nice to get this right on the stand

Shimming it will move the starter downward away from the ring gear, opening up the clearance even more. If the gear has excessive backlash/clearance with no shims then you might need to get the aluminium adapter block milled and shim it back down for the right clearance.

As for preferred testing method, same as TomV & use a paperclip here.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by krisr

Shimming it will move the starter downward away from the ring gear, opening up the clearance even more. If the gear has excessive backlash/clearance with no shims then you might need to get the aluminium adapter block milled and shim it back down for the right clearance.

As for preferred testing method, same as TomV & use a paperclip here.

X2 on that recommendation. A good machine shop could mill that so that you could use shims.

Tom V.

[BLUE TA]

hi guys, I have a summit mini starter on my 455 74 ta. I used shims and the paper clip method. pretty easy and this was on the car. my oem starter used shims also. BLUE TA

[Tom Vaught]

Was your TA an automatic by chance?

Tom V.