[gto19]

Living in California we can only get unleaded 91 octane . What’ are the California people adding to there fuel that are running there 1960s v8 motors ?

[ponyakr]

If you just wanna increase the octane, you can add some Torco Accelerator octane booster.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...010t?rrec=true

https://www.amazon.com/Torco-F500010...FC5EDEX25S6KVV

If you wanna add some real lead, you can add some Octane Supreme.

http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/OctaneSupreme01.htm

Both are probably illegal In CA. They may not even be able to ship to CA. Don't know. Users may have to smuggle it in.

Some mix in a little racing gas.

[Mike Davis]

Find a airport and mix in some 100L!

[JLMounce]

Are you needing the lead as stated for extra octane, or are you needing it for unhardened seats?

For a while I had to run 100 octane fuel, or use additives etc. to keep my engine from pinging. Although it's not initially the cheapest method, I can tell you that swapping out the top-end so that I could simply run pump fuel was the best thing I ever did. No 100+ dollar fill-ups, no measuring additives or trying to blend fuels. All that did was keep me from driving and enjoying the car.

I know it's easy to spend other people's money, but in my opinion, if you're having to ask about lead additives regardless of the reason, you may be best served by taking the heads off the engine and having hardened seats installed if that's the case. If it's a compression issue where added octane is needed, a different set of heads to get the compression in check may be beneficial here. If you need the original heads for value, they can be kept for if/when the car is sold.

[Stuart]

Depending on your car and how you drive it, in my opinion lead additives may not be necessary. Considering how most people use their old cars, and the number of miles they put on them each year, it will take a long time before most people see any valve recession issues. You may as well wait until if and when you see a problem, and then worry about having hardened seats installed.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

Find a airport and mix in some 100L!

Not as easy as it seems. Most FBOs and airports strengthened their security protocols after 9-11 to prevent unauthorized access to the ramp areas. Then, you have the problems of road tax payment. Additionally Avgas 100LL isn’t the panacea many believe it to be due to difference in specific gravity and vapor pressure.

[Mike Davis]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Not as easy as it seems. Most FBOs and airports strengthened their security protocols after 9-11 to prevent unauthorized access to the ramp areas. Then, you have the problems of road tax payment. Additionally Avgas 100LL isn’t the panacea many believe it to be due to difference in specific gravity and vapor pressure.

That's what they say....but
I have used it and did back to back test with C12 and ran the same numbers. I do add 2OZ of MMT to it.
I can still get it pretty easy around here. Local airports have a pay at the pump option right inside the gate.
I also have a pilots license and they know me so that may help.

[grrrrregg!!!]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

If you just wanna increase the octane, you can add some Torco Accelerator octane booster.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...010t?rrec=true

https://www.amazon.com/Torco-F500010...FC5EDEX25S6KVV

If you wanna add some real lead, you can add some Octane Supreme.

http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/OctaneSupreme01.htm

Both are probably illegal In CA. They may not even be able to ship to CA. Don't know. Users may have to smuggle it in.

Some mix in a little racing gas.

I believe you can still get Octane Supreme sent to Ca. Its labeled as off road use only.

[Douglas Willinger]

Blend in say 4 gallons E-85 to 8 gallons 91.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Douglas Willinger

Blend in say 4 gallons E-85 to 8 gallons 91.

That'll increase the octane alright. BUT, the high ethanol content would likely cause problems. Most carbs need extensive internal mods to run E-85. So, a 1/3 mix with pump gas, would also probably require carb mods. Maybe Cliff or one of the other carb guys will chime in & tell us how much E85 can be mixed in, without needing carb mods.

Anybody try this 4 to 8 mix ?

[wbnapier]

I can buy 100 octane out of the pump where I live, ethanol-free. $8.99 / gallon or 91 octane for about $4.40 / gallon.

I typically do 91 octane and add a pint of boostane professional. They ship to California.

Rebuilding my engine and making it pump gas friendly is on my bucket list. In the meantime, CA gas prices bleed me.

[Grand73Am]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Depending on your car and how you drive it, in my opinion lead additives may not be necessary. Considering how most people use their old cars, and the number of miles they put on them each year, it will take a long time before most people see any valve recession issues. You may as well wait until if and when you see a problem, and then worry about having hardened seats installed.

Since the original poster's question was about lead additive for 60's engines, I think this answer is the best one that applies. I've driven mine with unleaded many years without lead additives and had no problem. So, I agree that lead additive isn't necessary for regular driving with the old engines, and wouldn't worry about it. Just be sure to use high enough octane for the engine. If you were racing or pulling a heavy trailer on a trip, it would be a different story.

[gto19]

Thanks guys for all the great info . I think this stuff looks good because it has some lead and raises the octane. But your probably right about not needing the lead for regular driving but it probably wouldn’t hurt

Octane supreme

http://www.overkillgarage.com/octane-supreme.html

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

That's what they say....but
I have used it and did back to back test with C12 and ran the same numbers. I do add 2OZ of MMT to it.
I can still get it pretty easy around here. Local airports have a pay at the pump option right inside the gate.
I also have a pilots license and they know me so that may help.

Mike, I sold hundreds of gallons of 100LL to racers and XKE owners for years, but we had to be extremely careful in regards to road tax issues with the state. Our policy was a 40 gal minimum purchase was required. That way we could honestly tell the state department of revenue we had no idea what the fuel was being used for. We had many customers who kept their aircraft at home., plus there were a couple of airboat operators who purchased fuel. The late Mike Keown( old friend of mine) did some dyno comparisons between 100LL and Turbo Blue 110 in the late 1980s. Mike found in WOT conditions the Turbo Blue held a slight advantage over 100LL, depending on jetting. There is no denying that 100/130LL fuel has a different vapor pressure than racing gasoline (needed due to the high altitude use of avgas). The difference in vapor pressure is what can cause “leaning out” of 100/130LL in an automotive application.

[lust4speed]

I had my own gate card at the local airport until 9-11, but they cancelled all cards after that unless you had an aircraft hangered there. I could still take the kids' old toy wagon with the gas cans and walk about a quarter mile to the pumps after checking in with the folks in the airport lobby, but that got old very quick. So I bit the bullet and lowered the compression in both the drag car and street car, and can run any crap gas California offers. You start adding up the cost of additives and the break-even point for the rebuild isn't that far away.

I put off installing hardened exhaust seats years ago with my machine shop saying that with my limited mileage it would take forever for the no-lead to wear the seats. Well... one look when the engine was apart for the dished pistons revealed that the seats wore quickly and were receding into the head. I now have hardened seats done on all the cast iron heads that go in for a valve job. Cost is around $6.00 a seat and about $6.50 each for installation. That comes out to about an extra $100 if added on to a valve job.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

That'll increase the octane alright. BUT, the high ethanol content would likely cause problems. Most carbs need extensive internal mods to run E-85. So, a 1/3 mix with pump gas, would also probably require carb mods. Maybe Cliff or one of the other carb guys will chime in & tell us how much E85 can be mixed in, without needing carb mods.

Anybody try this 4 to 8 mix ?

It would be a tuning nightmare. It's already bad enough with what is supposed to be a 10% blend, but testing at various pumps years ago showed it varied as much as 17%. I couldn't even imagine trying to mix E-85 with 10% ethanol at the pump, that's just a total disaster waiting to happen, you'll never get the mixtures exactly the same with every tank.

For the record ethanol gas stoich is very different.
gas 14.7:1
E10 14:1
E15 13.8:1
E85 9.7:1

Try mixing that and you'll have no idea where your AFR needs to be to keep things reasonably safe, it would be a crap shoot with every tank.
Even with just the E10 at the pumps, I find our cars need to have the idle circuits reworked, adding fuel, to keep the engine happy, and overall I tend to run the fuel curve a pinch fatter. The factory calibrations are just not rich enough to run the ethanol blends efficiently.

In a nut shell, unless you want to take the carb apart every week you fill the car up mixing this stuff, then you need to pick a blend and stick with it.

[Formulajones]

As far as needing lead additives in the fuels, I build everything here with hardened seats for starters. Needed or not remains to be seen as some engines I've done without hardened seats and after 30k miles a tear down has shown no excessive valve seat wear. We drive our stuff on a daily basis nowdays so I just spring for the hardened seats and not worry about it.

Over the last 20 years or so I've gotten into the habit of adding a few ounces of 2 cycle engine oil with TCW3. Not only does that have some cleaning properties to keep the gunk off the valves and pistons but it also adds a little lubricity to the fuel for the valve seats and guides.
Knock on wood but it's been excellent, I haven't seen any of the side affects of running ethanol blended fuels like corrosion, and my engines seem to be happier with it.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

I had my own gate card at the local airport until 9-11, but they cancelled all cards after that unless you had an aircraft hangered there. I could still take the kids' old toy wagon with the gas cans and walk about a quarter mile to the pumps after checking in with the folks in the airport lobby, but that got old very quick. So I bit the bullet and lowered the compression in both the drag car and street car, and can run any crap gas California offers. You start adding up the cost of additives and the break-even point for the rebuild isn't that far away.

I put off installing hardened exhaust seats years ago with my machine shop saying that with my limited mileage it would take forever for the no-lead to wear the seats. Well... one look when the engine was apart for the dished pistons revealed that the seats wore quickly and were receding into the head. I now have hardened seats done on all the cast iron heads that go in for a valve job. Cost is around $6.00 a seat and about $6.50 each for installation. That comes out to about an extra $100 if added on to a valve job.

Mick, this is the SOP at nearly every airport in a large metro area. There are a few airports in small towns and rural areas that will let you get away with buying 5-10 gals of Avgas but the FAA and TSA are taking an increasing dim view of this. When we lived in S.FL, getting 100LL was easy because of all the gas stations around Lake Okeechobee that carried it for airboat operators.

[steve25]

If you want to do your motor some long term good then try your damest to get some fuel with real lead in it like race fuel.

Lead will bond chemically to the steel valves and the cast iron or seat material in the head and protect both from degreading and waring for a while even when the fuel used no longer has lead in it .

The protection from a half a tanks worth of leaded fuel will last thru 2 full tanks unleaded fuel if you do not beat on the motor ( i.e.) like running it at the drag strip.

For just upping ocatane levels try to get your mitt's on some Toluene to add to your pump fuel.

[GRX]

Exactly as Steve said. Don't need the Lead in every single tank. I remember it well when my State went all lead free. Year or so later we were flooded with sunken seats. Pontiacs included. Often wish we had digital cameras back then. If you are reconditioning the heads you're likely replacing old valves too. For the price, only makes sense to have exh seat inserts installed as well. Insurance and peace of mind.