[Sirrotica]

Buick made a 2 lb. oil pressure switch because they had too many warranty complaints about the V6s flickering oil pressure light at 5 lbs. An engine at idle doesn't need much oil pressure to keep running.

According to the universal yardstick of 10 lbs. per 1000 RPM, at 700 RPM 7 lbs is sufficient, but buick wrote their own rules that 2 lbs is sufficient.

A guy I went to HS with had an old 57 235 CI chevy 6 that they laid a brick on the gas pedal for 1/2 hour and it just sat there and screamed. They first drained the radiator, still running, drained the oil, still running, so they started dropping rocks down the carb, and it finally blew up.

Another 235 chevy in a tow truck, threw a rod towing his race car to our Vo Tech to work on it during class. Windowed the block, rod bolts sheared off. He reached through the hole in the block and shoved the piston, and what was left of the rod all the way to the top of the cylinder so they didn't hit the crank on the drive home. The oil pressure is near zero because with the rod missing there's a huge leak in the oil system. With the race car on the back he drove it nearly 20 miles back to his house, it stayed together, but it shook like hell because of the imbalance, he said 20 MPH was as fast as he dared drive it, still towing his race car.

I saw a 305 chevy that ran so long with a spin bearing in a daily driver that roughly half of the rod throw was worn away. Imagine how hard the piston was hammering the head with roughly 3/4 of an inch of the crank was worn away. Rod clearance .750, they don't make plastigage that big................LOL

You never know the limits of how far you can push an engine until you run it until it won't go any further. When it quits completely, you found it's ultimate limit.

[dataway]

Back when I was riding Harleys I went to a local meet, one of the celebrations was taking a "Jap" bike and blowing it up. It was some kind of 70's Honda. Pinned the throttle wide open and let it run ... as per stories above people got tired waiting... so they pile wood around it and set it on fire, still ran another ten minutes or so before dying (no explosions) .... long enough that many people walked away dejected at how long the Japanese "garbage" ran .... then after burning for 20 minutes .... it began trying to start ... some wire had burned through and energized the starter, the crowd got even sadder

[johnta1]

Tom, I think if you ask the sales rep for 'H' series clevites they will be correct?

Here is a link to some on Jeg's:

Main Bearings

Just noticed they are for 455 size mains. May have to ask for the smaller ones.

I think Butler (and others probably) have them?

[mgarblik]

At our school before they became all politically correct, every spring for ten years or more we had the "brick test". The marginal students with D- and F+ grades were given the "Option to improve their grade by 1 letter grade". They would have to line up their cars and drain the oil and coolant, start them up and put a brick on the gas pedal. Last one running got the letter grade bump. Some years we had 4-5 cars in the contest. The smart students, (among the dummies), would intentionally have extra poor running engines that would not rev too high. Their were many memorable engine epic failures. One that just wouldn't die was an iron duke 4-cyl in a Sunbird. It must have run wide open, no oil, no coolant for 20 minutes then just slowly seized up and stalled. After cooling for an hour or so, it started right back up and ran another 10 minutes before finally tossing a connecting rod. Good times!!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Last one running got the letter grade bump.

Dayum
that should have been worth at least a 2 letter grade bump

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

At our school before they became all politically correct, every spring for ten years or more we had the "brick test". The marginal students with D- and F+ grades were given the "Option to improve their grade by 1 letter grade". They would have to line up their cars and drain the oil and coolant, start them up and put a brick on the gas pedal. Last one running got the letter grade bump. Some years we had 4-5 cars in the contest. The smart students, (among the dummies), would intentionally have extra poor running engines that would not rev too high. Their were many memorable engine epic failures. One that just wouldn't die was an iron duke 4-cyl in a Sunbird. It must have run wide open, no oil, no coolant for 20 minutes then just slowly seized up and stalled. After cooling for an hour or so, it started right back up and ran another 10 minutes before finally tossing a connecting rod. Good times!!

Mike, too me it's not surprising that a derivative of the inline chevy 6 ran that long. As my posts have indicated, it's really hard to kill one of them in my experiences, whether it's the older design previous to 1963 clear back into the 30s. Or the newer design that came about in 1963, they are damn tough to scatter even with severe abuse.

The iron duke is a reworked 153 CI four cylinder chevy 4 with two cylinders removed from their straight 194 straight 6. It was used as the economy option in the early chevy II/X body platform that began in 1962.

I had a disagreement with a friend of mine that they were built on the same parameters, and it was just an updated design that Pontiac massaged to update it. We drug out the parts books, and sure enough the timing gears and bearings are the same part numbers as the 153 4 cylinder, and the 194 straight 6, as the 151 iron duke.

The 301 Pontiac also shared parts and dimensions with the iron duke. Just divide 301 in half and you get 150.5 displacement. Kinda like 389 divided in half equals 194.5 early on, no slant on the 151 blocks though.

Midget racers used the early 153 4 cylinder, as was the iron duke 151 design adopted later on by the midget racers. It had to be a durable design to make it a favorite in the midget ranks. The midget ranks also grafted a crossflow SBC head to the 153 to improve power. Pontiac made their own crossflow head, with staggered valves to up the power of the early iron duke mid 70s.

Way off topic, now, sorry to the OP ......................

[Mr Anonymous]

I hope the OP gets his engine squared away soon... but not before another engine story. 6-7 years ago, I bought an 84 cutlass g-body "sedan" out of cincinnati, off of CL. Mint body, low miles, but "leaked oil heavily from everywhere". I bought it, towed it home, and to my surprise, he was exactly right. as soon as you started it, oil seemed to come from every gasket surface. When I wiped off the dipstick, it seemed to always show too much. I drained just shy of 4 gallons of oil out of it. It then ran like a top, but I couldnt give away that little 3.8 buick V6 and TH200C. I was doing a 350/350/3.73 swap into the car, so I thought I'd blow the damn thing up. Put a brick on the gas pedal, headed to the house for lunch. It wouldnt rev high enough to blow itself up. It did manage to run out of the old gas eventually, so i just gave up and pulled it, and sold it by the pound. I think I got $25. I was hoping for spectacular mechanical carnage and fire, but sadly got nothing too soothe my cold, heartless soul.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

Yes, the bearings were part of the kit I purchased from Butler. I will try to speak with them Monday, but I'm waiting on more info from the machinist. He's going to do some measurements with different bearings, stock crank, etc..

In my opinion, they should sell the kit with a narrow bearing or reduced radius (fillet). The customer should have no need to machine the crank for this. At the least, send a note with the kit that this needs to be checked.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this is either a manufacturing defect by Scat or Clevite. I doubt Butler would even check something like this on their own builds,

This cannot be a normal thing, otherwise garage hobbyists are doomed. If a hobbyist needs to go to this level of inspection detail on semi-finished parts, it becomes an unworkable project for most of us.

Moving forward, I would caution anyone against purchasing their own parts and doing this. Let your machinist prepping your block purchase the parts and have responsibility for them.

Excellent advice, I often told customers “Would you bring your own steaks to a restaurant then complain if they don’t taste good., make you sick or kill you”

IF we took the job , it was made clear, in writing...no warranty.
I would offer to match their “Summit Racing” pricing.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

The iron duke is a reworked 153 CI four cylinder chevy 4 with two cylinders removed from their straight 194 straight 6.

The 153 "Chevy II" four-popper has the same bore and stroke as the 230 six-popper.

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I had a disagreement with a friend of mine that they were built on the same parameters, and it was just an updated design that Pontiac massaged to update it. We drug out the parts books, and sure enough the timing gears and bearings are the same part numbers as the 153 4 cylinder, and the 194 straight 6, as the 151 iron duke.

"Pontiac" gets the credit for "engineering" the Iron Duke. Truth is, GM/Chevrolet of Brazil was using that engine (same bore, same stroke, 151 cid) YEARS before the USA.

A "long stroke"153 crank drops right into an early 151 Iron Duke, if you have suitable pistons to go with the stroker crank.

The Iron Duke got over 200 revisions during it's production life; they changed EVERYTHING on that piece of crap trying to make an engine out of it.

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

The 301 Pontiac also shared parts and dimensions with the iron duke.

Same bore and stroke, I'm not aware of any interchangeable parts.

[dmac]

A rebuilt ford 302 had the valve locks installed wrong, and my girlfriend drove the car 1800 miles with a hole in the piston and a crack in the cylinder wall. She first called me to say it was 'ticking' and a few hours latercalled me to tell me it was overheating, and smoking but that she thought she could make it home.. She was pulling over every 50 miles, to add water to the radiator and a 2 day trip took 4 days. When she got home, the 'oil' pretty much filled the block and pretty much looked like crisco shortening. I found the valve stem in the bottom of the oil pan

I think the thick mix in the crank case had just enough oil in it to lubricate enough. The hole in the piston was about 3/4 inch in diameter and looked melted around the edge. The crack in the cylinder wall was more of a gouge. I assume that maybe the length of the valve was enough that it didn't completely fall into the cylinder- but kept getting driven up and down in the valve guide for some time as the first complaint was about a loud 'ticking' that may have been the piston hitting the loose valve. Eventually, the face of the valve must have worn away and the shortened valve fell the rest of the way into the cylinder and tore up the cylinder wall.

That whole (hole) episode left me wondering if the cooling system and oil system could actually be filled with the same fluid.. You might need a bigger radiator though

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by dmac

That whole (hole) episode left me wondering if the cooling system and oil system could actually be filled with the same fluid.. You might need a bigger radiator though

That is an interesting thought.

[tom s]

Back to the OP.Mike got the bearings and confirmed they dont make a narrow main bearing.The H is for high performance and the X is for 1 thou more clearance.The new Clevite bearings dont have the little reliefs on the #4 bearing?Also he said it looks like the tangs for the #5 bearing are about 20 thou off moving it toward the back.The crank is out having the mains cut 10 and he will confirm when it is done and he can put it in the block.More answers promote more questions.The rep confirmed the bearings are being made in 3 diff factory's.Tom

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by tom s

Back to the OP.Mike got the bearings and confirmed they dont make a narrow main bearing.The H is for high performance and the X is for 1 thou more clearance.The new Clevite bearings dont have the little reliefs on the #4 bearing?Also he said it looks like the tangs for the #5 bearing are about 20 thou off moving it toward the back.The crank is out having the mains cut 10 and he will confirm when it is done and he can put it in the block.More answers promote more questions.The rep confirmed the bearings are being made in 3 diff factory's.Tom

Seems like in the earlier post, there`s a link to the bearings he used. They were 010 under. Were they used on a standard crank? I saw that earlier and was going to ask. So, I`ll do it now.

[tom s]

they were std on std.The crank is now getting cut to 10 under.The issue looks like the rear bearing was sitting too far back toward the radius!If the tangs are indeed 20 thou off that could have been the issue.AGAIN!ALL other bearings were good!Mike has made it his mission to get to the bottom of it.Tom

[Mike Davis]

The last coupe of sets of Clevite mains I have gotten I have had to lap with plate glass and sand paper as they were wider than other sets. The Federal Moguls measure .937 wide on 1-3 mains and 1.590 on the rear width. The Clevites were anywhere from .018 to .050 wider on a few sets I checked. Could make a big difference if there is a heavy radius.

[tom s]

Mike,from Mikes first look he thinks the tangs are off?Like I said he is waiting for the crank.Tom

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

The 153 "Chevy II" four-popper has the same bore and stroke as the 230 six-popper.


"Pontiac" gets the credit for "engineering" the Iron Duke. Truth is, GM/Chevrolet of Brazil was using that engine (same bore, same stroke, 151 cid) YEARS before the USA.

A "long stroke"153 crank drops right into an early 151 Iron Duke, if you have suitable pistons to go with the stroker crank.

The Iron Duke got over 200 revisions during it's production life; they changed EVERYTHING on that piece of crap trying to make an engine out of it.


Same bore and stroke, I'm not aware of any interchangeable parts.

I verified what I remembered 40 years ago, that the rod bearings are the same part # on 301s and 151s. I also thought the connecting rods interchanged, but I wasn't table to verify that just by looking on the net.

As many 301 connecting rods as I've seen break, they could be the same part # that caused the demise of the 151 Fiero's, due to engine fires caused by them exiting the crankcase and throwing oil on the exhaust.

Customers added to the problem by not checking oil, as did GMs design of the oil pan capacity, which they later rectified by a recall using a larger oil sump.

I've owned Pontiacs with both the 301 and the 151, and have no love for either engine, and although none failed catastrophically, they weren't made, or designed well, nor made of quality materials.

I was incorrect on my post that the 153 was based off of the 194, it wasn't, it was based off of the 230. 40 year old recollection isn't always as accurate as I wished it was. I should have verified it with a calculation.

I try to post facts on the forum that are accurate, that one wasn't however.

[gtohunter]

[QUOTE=Sirrotica;

You never know the limits of how far you can push an engine until you run it until it won't go any further. When it quits completely, you found it's ultimate limit.

[/QUOTE]

My kids 2.8 V6...He called me and said the clutch sounded "funny" ! LOL I went over, drove it to my house to pull it!

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by gtohunter

My kids 2.8 V6...He called me and said the clutch sounded "funny" ! LOL I went over, drove it to my house to pull it!

JB Weld probably isn't going to fix that one...............

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

JB Weld probably isn't going to fix that one...............

Speaking of 301's and the image, years ago I inherited my aunts 79 Bonneville with a 301. and about 90K on the clock. It was essentially a gift to me as it developed a knock; still drivable though and a nice coupe to boot. Car was in Southern New Jersey, me in Flemington, NJ; about 70 miles apart. Decided, the closer I get to home, the less the towing charge will be so I struck out on the road with the 301 & its knock. Actually made it within 2 miles of home before one loud knock & then she's gone. inspection showed #3 crank web completely busted out of the block followed by the crank breaking..so close to home. They took too much iron out of those engines; at least the early ones.