[dataway]

The vast majority of that historical increase in energy production was created with Coal, Hydro-electric and Nuclear ... present day scenario .. Coal - nope, practically illegal, Hydroelectric ... tapped out, no more rivers to damn, Nuclear ... almost impossible to build a new plant between regulation and environmental lawsuits since Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fucashima.

And bear in mind, 30% of TODAY's energy supply is 200% of the total supply of energy produced in 1960. So it's not like we'd just be tacking on a little bit more, we'd be adding 30% of a MUCH larger starting amount. 30% of a 50 gallon barrel is a lot more than 30% of a 10 gallon bucket. And we no longer can produce it easily using Coal, Hydro or Nuclear without drastic reductions in regulation.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...-and-sales.php

[The Champ]

dataway

To further your position, the climate terrorist also want to do away with natural gas, which produces 38% of all electrical power in the United States. The state that has done the most to eliminate natural gas as a source for electricity for their power grid is CA (they use natural gas for 35% of their power) and it's constant black outs and brown outs show how that is working out for them.

As mentioned earlier, many CA communities have enacted legislation banning natural gas from any new construction, forcing all electric structures going forward, further exacerbating the situation by forcing an increase in demand while they are trying to reduce their usage of natural gas as a power source for their grid.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by dataway

The vast majority of that historical increase in energy production was created with Coal, Hydro-electric and Nuclear ... present day scenario .. Coal - nope, practically illegal, Hydroelectric ... tapped out, no more rivers to damn, Nuclear ... almost impossible to build a new plant between regulation and environmental lawsuits since Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fucashima.

And bear in mind, 30% of TODAY's energy supply is 200% of the total supply of energy produced in 1960. So it's not like we'd just be tacking on a little bit more, we'd be adding 30% of a MUCH larger starting amount. 30% of a 50 gallon barrel is a lot more than 30% of a 10 gallon bucket. And we no longer can produce it easily using Coal, Hydro or Nuclear without drastic reductions in regulation.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...-and-sales.php

Places in the US are being forced to take down previous hydro dams for Fishing... local wildlife used to getting drinks and eating above these dams ends up dying..

[Formulabruce]

GMC and Electrics are NOT New. We have been down this road.. well our ancestors have.. Circa 1912 to 1930 These are NOT " one off" or " one of" vehicles.

[turbo69bird]

Nah time you have to madate a change it just shows it’s not popular. With the people.
If people wanted that more they’d buy it and the other would disappear. But it’s popular and wanted because it works, it’s clean and efficient, not to mention so many products use natural gas to be made . It’s just not logical to think if can be forced out of existence . Just take a look back to the late 60s early 70s houses electric heat, solar on roofs ember what a disaster that was? It will be again as soon as the equipment starts getting old
.

Fuel cell is the likely the best option going. Forward .

Originally Posted by The Champ

dataway

To further your position, the climate terrorist also want to do away with natural gas, which produces 38% of all electrical power in the United States. The state that has done the most to eliminate natural gas as a source for electricity for their power grid is CA (they use natural gas for 35% of their power) and it's constant black outs and brown outs show how that is working out for them.

As mentioned earlier, many CA communities have enacted legislation banning natural gas from any new construction, forcing all electric structures going forward, further exacerbating the situation by forcing an increase in demand while they are trying to reduce their usage of natural gas as a power source for their grid.

[mgarblik]

Fuel cell is the likely the best option going. Forward .

I was fortunate to have a chance to drive a Toyota Highlander Fuel cell vehicle about 10 years ago at my college. It was a bit of a PR affair to hype our school as being one of three, (at the time) training centers in the US for hybrid and EV vehicles. It was actually a decent performing vehicle. Handling was a little clumsy from the extra weight, but very quiet, decent acceleration. My colleague, always a publicity hound, put a coffee cup under the taillipe and drank a full cup of "exhaust" after about 15 minutes of sitting. Of course it was pure water. Front page picture in the paper. I was told at the time the SUV I drove cost 1.4 million dollars and they had a test fleet of 150 units driving all over the US. Range was around 300 miles at the time. Seems the interest has cooled on these vehicles not long after I drove it. Again about 10 years ago. Cost or range, or both must still be an issue.

[carbking]

Not that there is anything good about the pandemic, but the "work at home" philosophy may allow acceleration of electric vehicles to a small degree without overly taxing the power grid.

As far as hydrogen is concerned, anyone remember the Hindenburg? I am scared to death of propane, let alone hydrogen. We used to attend a number of swap meets, but refused to go to any that allowed propane-powered vehicles. Steam in the wrong hands is just as deadly.

There are naysayers to all of the current "newer" forms of energy. I forget how many birds are supposedly killed each year by the wind turbines.

Probably seems strange coming from a "carburetor dude", but I have been interested in commuter electric vehicles for 50 years. I would have bought one 45 years ago, except it could not be licensed in Missouri (and I have way too much junk to move) because its top speed was 42 MPH and Missouri required a vehicle to be capable of 45 MPH (and the city of Eldon has a maximum 35 MPH speed limit).

I have posted here before pictures of my electric riding lawnmowers.

Co-existance of ICE and electric would be a wonderful goal.

(MOO)

Jon.

[Mr Anonymous]

Originally Posted by carbking

As far as hydrogen is concerned, anyone remember the Hindenburg? I am scared to death of propane, let alone hydrogen.
Jon.

H and H2 ... pick your... "ahem"... poison....

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Fuel cell is the likely the best option going. Forward .

I was fortunate to have a chance to drive a Toyota Highlander Fuel cell vehicle about 10 years ago at my college. It was a bit of a PR affair to hype our school as being one of three, (at the time) training centers in the US for hybrid and EV vehicles. It was actually a decent performing vehicle. Handling was a little clumsy from the extra weight, but very quiet, decent acceleration. My colleague, always a publicity hound, put a coffee cup under the taillipe and drank a full cup of "exhaust" after about 15 minutes of sitting. Of course it was pure water. Front page picture in the paper. I was told at the time the SUV I drove cost 1.4 million dollars and they had a test fleet of 150 units driving all over the US. Range was around 300 miles at the time. Seems the interest has cooled on these vehicles not long after I drove it. Again about 10 years ago. Cost or range, or both must still be an issue.

Fuel cell stocks are doing well again .
Fcel was at .40 cents for a while it’s $29 last I looked .

Pretty sure they omit harmless water no?

I know that there’s many functioning fuel cells for big projects I have yet to hear of any disasters

[turbo69bird]

A freind of mine has an electric car from just about the turn of the century hardly anything new about electric vehicles.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hupp-Yeats

I had another friend who had a electric I’d say this is my friend he’s got an EV car blah blah blah Introducing him ??? This thing is awesome get him all worked up and then I’d bust his a$$ saying yeah it is the sweetest coal powered car I’ve ever seen. Man he’d dread it. �� Sometimes I’d do it sometimes I wouldn’t. Keep him guessing.

I think it’s cool to be into what your into as long as you don’t get all preachy about it to people who aren’t into it. I think everyone should be into thier thing w/o being too stupid serious or pushy about it on other people . Kinda feel that way about most things .

[mgarblik]

You have to love the Prius owner that drives around with a "0emision" license plate. They really don't quite have a grasp on reality.

[dataway]

I have no problems with someday driving an electric vehicle that performs as well as a ICE vehicle. I'm not anti-electric, just realistic electric. It will certainly happen someday but compromises are going to have to be made by someone. You can't produce gobs of power without gobs of fuel. The people touting it as "clean" are going to have to make some allowances, the power HAS to come from somewhere, and until we perfect hydrogen or fusion, well, we know our potential energy sources ... pick a couple and let fly with the generation plants.

[JimFB400HO]

China has a $4,500 electric. (They call it a car.)

Anyway, does that emblem have a shape similar to another make?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

China has a $4,500 electric. (They call it a car.)

Those might be okay here for un-manned auto-pilot Pizza Delivery.
I wouldn't drive one in any town around my area against all the SUV's and Pick-Ups.

We have wind gusts that would roll it over in the parking lot.
That would be time consuming helping everyone roll their cars back over.

[455dan]

Wow

The New Bolt and Bolt EUV are UGLY...

Maybe GM used the trademark re designer ?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022...t-look-review/

[carbking]

Hopefully, the folks pushing the "total electric by 2035" are aware of the "rolling blackouts" over much of the midwest due to the weather.

Power grid is going to require MAJOR updating.

Jon.

[Scarebird]

^^^^ Sounds like a good business opportunity for the country.

[dataway]

President of Toyota, who is heavily investing in EVs and batteries ... just came out and said the EV market is way overblown. Said stupid amounts of money are going into and there is no indication that it will be a particularly profitable endeavor until prices come WAY down and performance way up. Bear in mind he's thinking globally. EVs won't ever take over unless they appeal to the whole world. Only the US and Europe is buying $50K EVs, the rest of the world would have to have a $12,000 EV that goes 300 miles and is cheap to fix to even make a dent in the ICE market.

The US is an anomalous vehicle market, the only country that buys $40K pickup trucks in huge numbers, the only country that buys $50K SUVs in huge numbers, the only country that buys $50K muscle cars in relatively huge numbers. We will probably be the only country that buys $40K EVs in huge numbers. To the rest of the world an EV is a urban commuter pod, to the US and western Europe it's a Telsa, or a rare EV super car.

I think US style EV's are going to be way different than the rest of world. In Rome, Paris, London, Hong Kong, Madrid, Mexico City, Tokyo etc. they want tiny little Pods ... can't see that flying in the US. And hard to imagine US sales of $30+K EVs are going to be high enough to make them a real profitable endeavor. Always amazed when in Europe that the cars are probably on average 40% smaller than the US. You can go weeks without seeing a pickup truck or full size SUV.

[Formulabruce]

Untill the cost of recycling Lithium is way down, this technology will keep being expensive and NOT sustainable to make cars from it in masses.
90% of the worlds Lithium is in South America.
There is some "private" Lithium mining at salt flats in NV currently.
Going Electric makes you a bit MORE dependent on the Grid and the Govt..

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by carbking

Hopefully, the folks pushing the "total electric by 2035" are aware of the "rolling blackouts" over much of the midwest due to the weather.

Power grid is going to require MAJOR updating.

Jon.

The "experts", whoever they are seem to all be saying it will take over a TRILLION dollars to do a meaningful upgrade to the national grid. 5 TRILLION to replace. We have completely skipped over the Billions mark for most of our National Problems. 5 Trillion looks like this. 5,000,000,000.000.00.