[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Ok, so what hp level does one need a skirted block? Like I said, the current blocks can handle the current pontiac hp levels... so why would I but an 8k+ billet block with the same parameters?
Please advise

First off, if I could buy a billet block for 8k, sign me up...

Second...Is it possible that the cast blocks are living on borrowed time at those levels, where the billet will add some insurance?

Third...Is it possible that the billet blocks are able to add strength in the bore areas, that will enable higher boost levels?

Fourth...Which can be repaired easier, a cast block or a billet block?

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

There are 427 ci ls engines running 5.80's...

Do you think that is because of the skirted mains?

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by tom s

86 here today?Tom

60 here right now... headed to 75ish...

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

First off, if I could buy a billet block for 8k, sign me up...

Second...Is it possible that the cast blocks are living on borrowed time at those levels, where the billet will add some insurance?

Third...Is it possible that the billet blocks are able to add strength in the bore areas, that will enable higher boost levels?

Fourth...Which can be repaired easier, a cast block or a billet block?

I said 8k+... if I was going to step up to Billet why would I go non skirted? Can u answer that honstly?

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

Do you think that is because of the skirted mains?

honestly?not At all, but I bet they don't have the cap walk of a non skirted block..would u agree,?

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

I said 8k+... if I was going to step up to Billet why would I go non skirted? Can u answer that honstly?

I'm not saying a skirted block wouldnt be nice to have...What I am saying is that maybe its possible that they dont feel it is needed...Visner makes some bad ass billet blocks for many different engine designs, and they didnt skirt their pontiac blocks either...

Maybe Billy can tell us how much cap walk they have in SickGoat's engine.

[Elarson]

We ran the Boss Bird non-skirted solid cast aluminum AllPontiac block somewhere north of 3000 hp and it was pretty impressive. But there's a practical limit out there somewhere and if a person was going to spring for the $$ of a billet block, going skirted would seem to be an obvious move to raise the limits.

JMHO,
Eric

[Scott Roberts]

At my little hp level with an IA2, I had cap walk... I ran the same mains for 12 runs... after that it was done.. that was roughly 2k hp...
So if I wanted durability, why would I buy a non skirted block? If I can get ahold of the tune on current blocks with no skirts, why do I need a billet version of the same...??
My point is this, I can run a car and changed out bearing all day long.. did that in the beginning with rod bearings to find the tune.( doubt you know what I mean there) if you do, let me know .. it's called reading a dead soft bearing...
You're over you head bud... best u can do is go away..kre uses the customer as a test mule... they are douchbags...

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Elarson

We ran the Boss Bird non-skirted solid cast aluminum AllPontiac block somewhere north of 3000 hp and it was pretty impressive. But there's a practical limit out there somewhere and if a person was going to spring for the $$ of a billet block, going skirted would seem to be an obvious move to raise the limits.

JMHO,
Eric

How did ur bearings read? Did u guys run a dead soft bearing and measure the spread? How was ur cap walk?
Not being an ass Eric, u guys set the bar! Just curious if u think a skirted block would have helped at u level?
I know it would have helped us at out at our little level compared you you guys..

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

It was 78 yesterday but a cloudy 48 today.

Lol...in the middle of this, that made me giggle like a middle schooler...
Thanks Paul...

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

At my little hp level with an IA2, I had cap walk... I ran the same mains for 12 runs... after that it was done.. that was roughly 2k hp...
So if I wanted durability, why would I buy a non skirted block? If I can get ahold of the tune on current blocks with no skirts, why do I need a billet version of the same...??
My point is this, I can run a car and changed out bearing all day long.. did that in the beginning with rod bearings to find the tune.( doubt you know what I mean there) if you do, let me know .. it's called reading a dead soft bearing...
You're over you head bud... best u can do is go away..kre uses the customer as a test mule... they are douchbags...

If you were killing bearings at 2000hp, it wasn’t the blocks fault. I plan to make that much with my 76mms, and I have no concerns about my bearings. Now, when I put the 91mms on it, maybe I’ll run into a problem. But I don’t expect that. I’ve talked with Travis for a long time on this combo, and bearing issues have never been a concern.

But hell, maybe I’m just over my head.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

If you were killing bearings at 2000hp, it wasn’t the blocks fault. I plan to make that much with my 76mms, and I have no concerns about my bearings. Now, when I put the 91mms on it, maybe I’ll run into a problem. But I don’t expect that. I’ve talked with Travis for a long time on this combo, and bearing issues have never been a concern.

But hell, maybe I’m just over my head.

You are with your 10 year build ..the rubber hits the road after that first hit... wish u the best

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

If you were killing bearings at 2000hp, it wasn’t the blocks fault. I plan to make that much with my 76mms, and I have no concerns about my bearings. Now, when I put the 91mms on it, maybe I’ll run into a problem. But I don’t expect that. I’ve talked with Travis for a long time on this combo, and bearing issues have never been a concern.

But hell, maybe I’m just over my head.

On top of that, do u feel u need a billet block? No, u don't.... if u stepped up to 4k u might.. if u went that lev, would u want a billet skirted block of non skirted?
Here we are again with the dumbass kre block

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

You are with your 10 year build ..the rubber hits the road after that first hit... wish u the best

I’m sorry that my build isn’t coming together quicker. I decided to build a car that no parts are made for, so I’ve had to build them myself.

As for any smart a$$ comments. I’ll try a little harder now to achieve my goals. Thank you

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

On top of that, do u feel u need a billet block? No, u don't.... if u stepped up to 4k u might.. if u went that lev, would u want a billet skirted block of non skirted?
Here we are again with the dumbass kre block

Damn Scott, I’ve never said I wouldn’t like to have a skirted block. I’ve just said that I can understand why they are building what they are building. Some of it is just smart business. Why build the best the first time, when you can offer a stepping stone that people will buy until you build the next level.

I get the fact that you have bad blood with them, and I don’t blame you at all. You can attack me all you want, and it will only make me smile and try a little harder to throw it right back in your face.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

I’m sorry that my build isn’t coming together quicker. I decided to build a car that no parts are made for, so I’ve had to build them myself.

As for any smart a$$ comments. I’ll try a little harder now to achieve my goals. Thank you

I wish u nothing but the best in ur build.. that's the easy part.. once u hit the track.... that's when you need to be smart..
Again, wish u the best, I'm far the smartest here but I would be glad to help u out If can.
If u have Travis Q on ur side, ur golden..

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

I wish u nothing but the best in ur build.. that's the easy part.. once u hit the track.... that's when you need to be smart..
Again, wish u the best, I'm far the smartest here but I would be glad to help u out If can.
If u have Travis Q on ur side, ur golden..

Actually you need to be smart at every step along the way...Aligning yourself with those that actually have been there and done it, and those that doesnt make it about spending on things that are not needed...I've been around this stuff for over 35 years, and I know what it takes to do what i'm trying to do...I dont plan to be Dirty Bird fast, but I plan to do what few others have done...

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

Actually you need to be smart at every step along the way...Aligning yourself with those that actually have been there and done it, and those that doesnt make it about spending on things that are not needed...I've been around this stuff for over 35 years, and I know what it takes to do what i'm trying to do...I dont plan to be Dirty Bird fast, but I plan to do what few others have done...

Sure u will come out swinging and stomp the piddly ass record we set... that is old news and history.. wishes u the best bud... if u have Travis on board, ur gonna lay down a number

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

How did ur bearings read? Did u guys run a dead soft bearing and measure the spread? How was ur cap walk?
Not being an ass Eric, u guys set the bar! Just curious if u think a skirted block would have helped at u level?
I know it would have helped us at out at our little level compared you you guys..

As you know, the main bearing availability for Pontiac engines isn't great. We ran King and FM race bearings, just the regular stuff. Yes, we did have some cap walk, and yes I believe having cross bolted main caps would have helped. How could it not help? Clamping the main caps within the block structure makes the entire bottom end more rigid and able to withstand higher loads. ALL the really high HP racing engines have them. I guess the question is at what HP point do you really need them in a Pontiac engine. I would submit that the cast IA solid aluminum block needs them somewhere north of 3100-3300 HP. Would it have benefited us at the 3K HP we were making? Yes in my opinion. I did several things to help "crutch" what we had to work with. Bill Miller worked with me and shared several ideas I incorporated into our engine. You may know he ran BBC based engines in NHRA Top Fuel for several years. We used his special "peanut butter" lube on the studs and nuts and a different spray lube on the ends that went in the block. We torqued the main studs on to steel ball bearings dropped into the bolt holes. I cut the main caps which were steel, with an extra coarse dress on the stone, alternating the direction each cap faced in the grinder. This way the cap would lightly embed into the aluminum when clamped in addition to the register and the pins. All these little "tricks or band aids" did help. Made a noticeable difference. But there was still a little cap walk. Nothing that hurt the bearings, but it was there. That's all I can add from my experience. I love my Pontiacs, but a skirted block would be my choice.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

As you know, the main bearing availability for Pontiac engines isn't great. We ran King and FM race bearings, just the regular stuff. Yes, we did have some cap walk, and yes I believe having cross bolted main caps would have helped. How could it not help? Clamping the main caps within the block structure makes the entire bottom end more rigid and able to withstand higher loads. ALL the really high HP racing engines have them. I guess the question is at what HP point do you really need them in a Pontiac engine. I would submit that the cast IA solid aluminum block needs them somewhere north of 3100-3300 HP. Would it have benefited us at the 3K HP we were making? Yes in my opinion. I did several things to help "crutch" what we had to work with. Bill Miller worked with me and shared several ideas I incorporated into our engine. You may know he ran BBC based engines in NHRA Top Fuel for several years. We used his special "peanut butter" lube on the studs and nuts and a different spray lube on the ends that went in the block. We torqued the main studs on to steel ball bearings dropped into the bolt holes. I cut the main caps which were steel, with an extra coarse dress on the stone, alternating the direction each cap faced in the grinder. This way the cap would lightly embed into the aluminum when clamped in addition to the register and the pins. All these little "tricks or band aids" did help. Made a noticeable difference. But there was still a little cap walk. Nothing that hurt the bearings, but it was there. That's all I can add from my experience. I love my Pontiacs, but a skirted block would be my choice.

Thank you, as always, very well layed out informative
You guys set the bar for hp and durability! God knows, nitro will find the weak link...