[roger1]

Originally Posted by dataway

I'm still seeing them offered with both long and shorter copper spacers ( Rock Auto) .. is one preferred over the other? I remember they used to designate the difference as one being "heavy duty" and the shorter spacer not. Don't see that in the descriptions now.

As I remember it the ones that used the spacer were called "high torque" starters.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by dataway

The purple wire on my car only shows signs of heat at the connection points.

Tnx for clarifying. And you are going to solder your crimped connections!

I think Roger mentioned that there WAS a service bulletin concerning that wire, not sure if it included a relay .. probably not as it was not seen on the 69.

I missed that but see he updated. As to a relay still not used in 69, I'm hoping someone can share "when" this starter design was changed.

...
I guess we would have to define "longevity" since I seriously doubt GM gave a crap about what happened to cars 10 years after they built them.

I don't know how much they cared, but clearly not enough to spend what it would take to make them issue-free for all customers in 10 years!

My experience in reliability engineering (again, not autos) is design orgs establish a "design life" or "useful life" for the product but may not spend the money to prove it nor guarantee it. Maybe a 10-year number is a good example for this discussion.

Allowable failure rates during the warranty period are basic requirements for new products. These are "reliability requirements" (specs) just as much as functional design specs. The 12-month/12K miles in 1968 might be an example. Other failure rate targets may be set beyond the warranty period depending on the business. A new product would have to "prove" they met the warranty targets before shipping to establish confidence in the planned warranty cost. "Proving it" translates into lots of time, money, and risk.

Probably the only upside to EPA regs on modern cars is that they require so many parts that are considered part of the emissions systems to be warrantied for longer periods. Seven years I think? Which probably drove GM to improve components and wiring that otherwise might have been marginal at that age.

We won't debate the "only upside to EPA regs" on this forum but yes, meeting regulatory standards that require increased reliability can be a burden if the business otherwise doesn't need that to meet its goals. And yes, the consumer may benefit in other ways (like more reliable wiring) but they also pay for it.

Bottom line is "what's good enough?" for a lot of these decisions. IMO, any business that can actually answer that question is a good one and it makes product development easier.

Originally Posted by roger1

The service bulletin was to add the relay to address the no-start situation due to the heat soak on the starter/solenoid. It was a retired Chevy rep that stated that in a forum I was reading. Don't know if there was one for Pontiac or not but the issue was GM wide since they all used the same starter/solenoid design. It worked because it boosted the voltage to the S post on the solenoid.

Thanks for this. Did the relay replace the solenoid high-current contacts (like the diagram posted earlier in this thread) or did it just bypass the source of the "heat-induced" voltage drops?

Mike

[dataway]

I've always wished I could order vehicles with enhanced durability options. On trucks you can to some degree with HD suspension, charging systems, differentials, etc. But how about things like cold weather package, stainless brake hardware, mil-spec wiring, corrosion resistant coatings. And while I'm at it ... a shark with a laser on it's head

[Red Box Rebel]

Could they have done it better back in '68? Sure, but remember, your laptop from 1999 had more computing ability then the NASA computers that landed a man on the moon in July1969.
My question is: How may '68 GTOs have burned up from overheating wires since 1968? I believe the Fed Gov't began issuing Safety Recalls in 1966, so by 1968 safety recalls were the law. Were any wiring safety recalls ever issued for GM cars and trucks in 1968 and the years following?
If you want to upgrade your electrical system for reliability and safety, it cannot hurt unless you insist on a factory original restoration. With the advent of the Restomod, Safety and reliability make a lot of sense.

[dataway]

I was just installing the remote trunk release and I noticed it draws 10+ amps when energized ... jeez, something in the glove box gets accidentally jammed against that button and things are going to get hot pretty freakin fast.

I think many of us might have had that experience going around a hard right turn and have the trunk pop open because something in the glove box slides against the button. But what if something got jammed there?

I was thinking about wiring in a high watt resistor of a few ohms to lower the current a bit, pretty sure the release would work find with 2-3 amps.

Bear in mind this car will probably be driven by my wife on occasion, she's a very bright woman but has probably the worst situational awareness I've ever seen outside a Sloth Rescue ranch ... so things have to be made as bullet proof as possible

[roger1]

It wouldn't be at all dangerous even with 16ga wire and a continuous 10A draw. Figuring the wire is 10ft long, that would be less than a 5% voltage drop.
Check out this calculator:
https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html

The popper would probably not be designed for the constant power and it might get hot and start to draw more amperage. A 15A fuse should protect it from ever getting to be dangerous.

That's my take anyway.

[dataway]

I'll have to put the VOM on the trunk wire and see what kind of resistance the coil is providing, should be able to calculate the max amps it would draw at 13 volts.

[dataway]

The solenoid as measured from the switch end of the wire, and ground to the dash shows about 1.26-1.27 Ohms ... so yep, 10 amps and a bit are all that could flow through.

I have a feeling I might add a resistor anyway ... cause I just can't stop myself from messing with sh*t

[roger1]

You could also rig up a micro switch on the perimeter of the trunk lid that would open when the trunk is open.

[dataway]

Originally Posted by roger1

You could also rig up a micro switch on the perimeter of the trunk lid that would open when the trunk is open.

That's a pretty good idea ... that could be wired right in the power feed to the solenoid .... little plunger like the glovebox light.

Why are you encouraging me

I don't want to go back in this direction ...
What you can't see in that photo is that the glove box door was connected to an old electric antenna motor that opened and closed the door with a switch in the console box