[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

I showed up at a local POCI show back in the late 1980s with a bone stock 1974 Formula SD455. The registration people were going to put me in the modified class because it had a Trans Am hood. There was no arguing with them, so I told them to forget it and just put it in the parking lot.

The car not being that old at the time, knowledge of that stuff wasn't wide spread. There was a lot of that going on in the 80's with all kinds of cars. COPO camaros were little known then. Even today there are still people that think all 69 Z's are supposed to have a cowl hood and spoilers. Took a lot of years to understand most of these cars and some of the ways they were built, and honestly there is still some learning to do.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

I showed up at a local POCI show back in the late 1980s with a bone stock 1974 Formula SD455. The registration people were going to put me in the modified class because it had a Trans Am hood. There was no arguing with them, so I told them to forget it and just put it in the parking lot.

I feel for ya. That’s a sweet car and it’s sad Pontiac people didn’t get to enjoy it that day.
There’s a reason membership is so far down and the shows are so sparse. Let’s hope things change a little at these shows in the future .

I was at a show in RI last year and I heard lots of people talking bad about the fieros, which were parked separately from all the rest. These ARE Pontiacs, after all. They have their place. I remember when I had my brand new 87 TA and people. Would dog it at all the Pontiac shows It wasn’t fun and it definitely annoyed me . Especially since I had some pretty sweet 69 birds at home .

Even if it’s not your cup of tea , maybe find something you appreciate about the cars and make people feel welcome. And that RI was a pretty good show for the most part but you never know if that fiero guy is standing next to you when you talk. I know most guys wouldn’t want to make a fellow Pontiac person feel lousy about their car. Can’t say I’ve never been guilty of such antics in my day, but as I get older I TRY to find more appreciation in others ways of doing things.


Oh and the rubber on the 1/4 panels of my RAIV car NEVER comes off that car. It’s been a race car since new and nothing but, it’s kind of a badge of honor (to local racers) showing it’s not a trailer queen, but a REAL race car (this one w it’s original 1/4s still intact). I think of it as racer undercoating.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

Even if it’s not your cup of tea , maybe find something you appreciate about the cars and make people feel welcome. And that RI was a pretty good show for the most part but you never know if that fiero guy is standing next to you when you talk. I know most guys wouldn’t want to make a fellow Pontiac person feel lousy about their car. Can’t say I’ve never been guilty of such antics in my day, but as I get older I TRY to find more appreciation in others ways of doing things.

That's pretty much how I feel, I like all kinds of cars, brands, models, doesn't have to be Pontiac. But I found the Pontiac crowd to be just as judgmental and not so welcoming at times as many other groups.
As an example, when I attend the Pavilions cruise I'd sometimes roll in with my 70 Formula. I'd have Pontiac people come over and ask me to park with them. Thought that was nice, until the next week I drive in the 71 Ventura Sprint, which is factory powered by a SBC. Soon as I popped the hood on that those very same people don't even want to talk to you. In fact I had one that moved his car to another spot. That told me right away the type of mentality I'm dealing with. If you can't appreciate these cars for what they are and enjoy all classic cars, then I don't have much use for those people and they are better off moving somewhere else. That's why specific brand car clubs and specific brand car shows I've always been a bit hesitant about. I feel they do tend to drive a wedge in the collector car hobby and we really don't need that, especially this day and age.

https://youtu.be/47HgejCVbFs

[kingbuzzo]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

I showed up at a local POCI show back in the late 1980s with a bone stock 1974 Formula SD455. The registration people were going to put me in the modified class because it had a Trans Am hood. There was no arguing with them, so I told them to forget it and just put it in the parking lot.

I just saw one of these a few weeks ago - at a car show lol

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That's pretty much how I feel, I like all kinds of cars, brands, models, doesn't have to be Pontiac. But I found the Pontiac crowd to be just as judgmental and not so welcoming at times as many other groups.
As an example, when I attend the Pavilions cruise I'd sometimes roll in with my 70 Formula. I'd have Pontiac people come over and ask me to park with them. Thought that was nice, until the next week I drive in the 71 Ventura Sprint, which is factory powered by a SBC. Soon as I popped the hood on that those very same people don't even want to talk to you. In fact I had one that moved his car to another spot. That told me right away the type of mentality I'm dealing with. If you can't appreciate these cars for what they are and enjoy all classic cars, then I don't have much use for those people and they are better off moving somewhere else. That's why specific brand car clubs and specific brand car shows I've always been a bit hesitant about. I feel they do tend to drive a wedge in the collector car hobby and we really don't need that, especially this day and age.

https://youtu.be/47HgejCVbFs

I get it - from both sides of the coin.

The specific brand/make clubs are great, if that's what you want to immerse yourself into;
I totally understand why some "Pontiac" guys might not see your Ventura as their cup of tea - but IIRC until the 1974 GTO, GM didn't even allow a Pontiac V8 into the "Pontiac" X-body;
Up here (Canada) many, many Pontiac's never came with a real Pontiac drivetrain - that's just the way they were built for this market, great examples are Beaumont's, Acadian's, and Parisienne's - they always had Chevrolet drivetrains.
Many in the BOP world are perturbed by BOP vehicles that do not have the "correct" drivetrain - understandably so BUT that same (unquestionably rude) guy who moved his car, is doing himself a disservice by not taking the time to learn that even though it was a Pontiac, that didn't mean it was built with a Pontiac drivetrain.

I enjoy Pontiac events, mostly because you don't see many Pontiac's at multi-marque shows;
I have liked Firebird specific clubs/events in the past too, even though most of the Firebird run (77-02) they were often "corporate" powered.

I wonder how much static I would receive if I replaced the tbi-350 in my 1992 Chev Sport truck, with a carbureted P350!?
LOL

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

I showed up at a local POCI show back in the late 1980s with a bone stock 1974 Formula SD455. The registration people were going to put me in the modified class because it had a Trans Am hood. There was no arguing with them, so I told them to forget it and just put it in the parking lot.

Reminds me of the time I was at a car show in Old Town, Kissimmee, on vacation. The guy running the show tried to turn away a 70 Monte Carlo 454 as it wasn't a "muscle car". He basically acted like he was doing him a favor by letting him stay. Meanwhile, a G-body El Camino rolls in with no issue.

Some people just suck.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I get it - from both sides of the coin.

The specific brand/make clubs are great, if that's what you want to immerse yourself into;
I totally understand why some "Pontiac" guys might not see your Ventura as their cup of tea - but IIRC until the 1974 GTO, GM didn't even allow a Pontiac V8 into the "Pontiac" X-body;
Up here (Canada) many, many Pontiac's never came with a real Pontiac drivetrain - that's just the way they were built for this market, great examples are Beaumont's, Acadian's, and Parisienne's - they always had Chevrolet drivetrains.
Many in the BOP world are perturbed by BOP vehicles that do not have the "correct" drivetrain - understandably so BUT that same (unquestionably rude) guy who moved his car, is doing himself a disservice by not taking the time to learn that even though it was a Pontiac, that didn't mean it was built with a Pontiac drivetrain.

I enjoy Pontiac events, mostly because you don't see many Pontiac's at multi-marque shows;
I have liked Firebird specific clubs/events in the past too, even though most of the Firebird run (77-02) they were often "corporate" powered.

I wonder how much static I would receive if I replaced the tbi-350 in my 1992 Chev Sport truck, with a carbureted P350!?
LOL

The corporate powered stuff doesn't bother me in the least bit. It is what it is. I think it's cool the fact that Canadian built Pontiacs had Chevrolet drivetrains, it makes them unique and interesting.
As far as the 71 Sprint, most people aren't even aware the Chevy engine is factory installed, they think it's something I swapped in. Guess they don't know the history of the very hobby they are in and would rather ignore and move on, which is fine with me. And these people call themselves "car" people, yeah okay. Certainly not a diehard by my definition. But I don't have these cars for other people, they are for me.

I do attend club specific events and actually have a good time with good people. I especially like the drag racing events that Rick Unterseh is putting on. Pontiac specific but he allows all the Pontiac corporate stuff to participate too so he's not necessarily Pontiac bias. Not to mention he's a fantastic guy to hang around and always wants to have a good time. Got one coming up tomorrow as a matter of fact.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

Reminds me of the time I was at a car show in Old Town, Kissimmee, on vacation. The guy running the show tried to turn away a 70 Monte Carlo 454 as it wasn't a "muscle car". He basically acted like he was doing him a favor by letting him stay. Meanwhile, a G-body El Camino rolls in with no issue.

Some people just suck.

Some people just have absolutely no clue at all. How they get to be in charge of something like that just boggles me.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

...
Some people just suck.

BINGO!!

lol

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

This happened to me on a Sunday drive to the hardware store, back in 2001. I had built it 7 years prior. I was so disgusted that it was 6 years before I got another old driver, my Grand Prix.

I know guys who haven't driven their old musclecars since the 1990's, afraid of something happening. Sometimes, unfortunately, stuff does. But at least we're out driving and having fun!

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

I know guys who haven't driven their old musclecars since the 1990's, afraid of something happening. Sometimes, unfortunately, stuff does. But at least we're out driving and having fun!

I know a few guys like that. One in particular has some cool stuff stashed away since the mid 80's.

[poncho-mike]

I probably fall into that category.

Somewhere around 1990 or so (around Christmas), I decided to go for a drive in my red 1973 SD455 T/A. It was a really nice sunny but cool day and I was on vacation. It was in the basement behind another car, and as luck would have it, the car in front had a dead battery. I loved driving the SD on cool winter days, it ran awesome in the denser air, but I didn't have time to mess with the other car.

I went to see my friend and drove my 1973 Formula 400. I was in a turn lane, the light turned green and a couple of cars ahead of me decided to make a U-turn. The car in front hit his brakes, I hit mine, and a woman in a huge Ford LTD wagon nailed me in the rear end.

I went round and round with the insurance company, finally settled. But I was thinking what it would have been like if I had been in my SD. I became a lot more paranoid about where I drove it after that.

My favorite cars are beaters, something like an older Formula with an upgraded drivetrain. There are way too many morons on the road today.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I know a few guys like that. One in particular has some cool stuff stashed away since the mid 80's.

[turbo69bird]

My dad always says “ what are you saving it for , some other guy to enjoy it and use it after you polished it and stared at it for 25 years”. ? “Your gonna be dead , use that thing like it was meant to be used it’s a fast car not a painting ! “

As for those who say
“ I’m saving it so I can show kids what a classic Pontiac is about”. That’s NOT what they were about. They were popular because guys pounded on them and ran them hard which was cool. The car just sitting there all pristine showroom new , doesn’t convey why these cars were so popular.
Taking someone for a ride and pulling a posi shot 50 ft long while filling the car full of tire smoke is sharing what is cool about these cars.

Same goes for all the mods people did to race these cars . It was cool that some people decided to set their cars back to stock. ( Because few were) but now there little to represent what these cars acatully looked like the first year of use and that’s a shame . Headers , dual quads, aftermarket wheels and tires, trick paint. Woukd be nice to see again.

[NeighborsComplaint]

I am getting there myself (losing interest). I attended 2 Cruise Nights this year. 1st one was pretty poor turnout on a Sunday. Took a look at a guy's '72 Lemans with a repro ram air setup with the ram air pan held to hood by about 50 hardware store screws and a model car painted the same color as his proudly perched on the top of the 455HO air cleaner on top of the 400 motor. Reminded me if the glory days of the stuffed tigers and crying-kid dolls leaning against the cars.

I was pretty bummed out over the lack of cars and a few weeks later I tried a different one on a Saturday night. Some of the same cars were there and turnout was about 20 cars.

I gave up on the area cruise nights and just started driving the car when weather permits. I'm 70 years old and kind of feeling like I've seen it all at this point and am content to do some light wrenching and finishing details on the car and drive it every chance I get.

My storage place makes us park them in mid-October before all the boats come in in order to get the protected spots and access to electric for the battery minder. I put mine in last weekend while the weather was dry.

I am going to try this one more season and then will give the car to my daughter and son in law for safekeeping for my Grandson (right). They live in Nashville and I'm sure will get some use out of it down there.

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Thought that was nice, until the next week I drive in the 71 Ventura Sprint, which is factory powered by a SBC. Soon as I popped the hood on that those very same people don't even want to talk to you.

That's crazy... the Pontiac Ventura is a bad-ass car. Isn't built off the Nova platform? I remember seeing one in the junkyard (I don't mean that as an offense, most of the classic cars I've seen have been in a South Florida junkyard). Anyway, the car was totally awesome. It even had some kind of cool retractable sunroof. Honestly, I've never been a huge fan of the NOVA, just not really my thing, but done up as a Pontiac, it totally changes the whole game for me.

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

I was at a show in RI last year and I heard lots of people talking bad about the fieros, which were parked separately from all the rest. These ARE Pontiacs, after all. They have their place. I remember when I had my brand new 87 TA and people. Would dog it at all the Pontiac shows It wasn’t fun and it definitely annoyed me . Especially since I had some pretty sweet 69 birds at home .

I used to get that on occasion, but most people had no idea what a Fiero is... and that usually meant that they thought it was some exotic sports car, which is hilarious. But I've always detested that kind of attitude... trashing someone's car. A car can be a very personal thing, but either way, someone is here, showing off their pride and joy... they are in the hobby, and we all keep it alive. Even if it's a car we aren't particular fond of, that person is proud of it... and for that, I respect anyone who's going to put in the effort to restore, maintain, or even show a car that they like.

Originally Posted by fyrffytr1

Our car club's annual show was this past Saturday. After working on my car for the last two weeks having a new windshield put in, the A/C compressor replaced and a new battery installed I washed and waxed the car, polished all the trim and detailed the interior. That about wore me out but the car was ready for the big show. I got to the show about 6:45am to help set everything up, then I put my car in it's usual spot. I walked back up to the entrance to watch the other cars come in and snap some pictures.

When I went back to my car, it was surrounded by Mopars! There were two on either side and pulled out enough to make my car all but invisible! That is when it hit me. I was alone, not only car wise but people wise as well. All my close car buddies have passed away and as I sat there by myself for the most part of the show I came to the conclusion that it wasn't as much fun as it used to be.

Hopefully this feeling will pass because I love driving my Goat and still enjoy the comments people make about it. But, things aren't the same without my buddies. We used to have a friendly rivalry because they drove Chevrolets and I miss that.

I know this is a weird first post to respond to, but I found this thread because it said Fiero in it, and for some reason this is what came up (one of the replies). I also know this thread is almost a year old, but I thought I'd respond to it since, even though you are likely older than me, I've been there too, albeit with different things.

As we get older, we change... and our interests change. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know... but my interests wane and grow depending on different things in my life. I took a job about 12 years ago that caused me to move every ~3 years, and as such, I put all my cars in storage (imagine the fees, lol). I quit that job, and now have more opportunity to spend with my family, a little less stress (it's certainly safer), and I'm getting back into the car hobby after taking a 12-year break.

My friends are all getting older too (I just turned 45), and the hardest thing for me over the years was realizing that things DO change. Everything from 9/11 to SpeedVision going away to my favorite restaurant chain... nothing lasts forever. Pontiac is just one of those. So... I've learned that we just have to live in the moment, and enjoy our experiences where and when we can.

I'm lucky enough that I had a Fiero up on the screen when my daughter walked into the office, and she immediately commented on how pretty she thought the car was. Even though I've owned a Fiero since I was 18, she's only seen it once because it's been in a storage unit for the past 12 years.

But... I bought the one on the screen for her, with the promise that we would restore it together... this weekend, we dropped the fuel tank to replace the sending unit and the fuel pump (see attachment).

She's even starting a video series on YouTube where she's been doing all the work herself, she's gotten really into it, and wants to basically do everything herself... except that I'm doing the editing for her... this is her most recent video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhhAT8J8fPg


So, I get it... but if you still enjoy your Pontiac... then keep driving it, and have fun with it. Start focusing more on car shows that cater to older Pontiacs, or more classic cars. Imagine how the AMC people feel! Haha... even most Gen-Xers don't even know what that make/model is.

[johnta1]

Cool!
Congrats on the daughter doing that.

All Pontiacs are cool.

And welcome to PY.

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Cool!
Congrats on the daughter doing that.

All Pontiacs are cool.

And welcome to PY.

Thank you, I totally agree. I honestly have never seen a Pontiac I didn't like. When I was in the junkyard like 15-20 years ago, I even saw a Pontiac version of the Geo Metro... it was the coolest little thing, and it had a turbo on it. It was called the Pontiac Firefly. it was in South Florida, so I assume it was someone from Canada that had driven it down... but it was hilarious, it was so tiny... yet it was a Pontiac. I don't remember, but I wonder if it had red-needled gauges like all the Pontiacs of that time... hahaha...


Let me see if I can find a picture of what one looks like...

Haha... yeah, check this out:




I guess it's the same 3 cyl engine as the Geo Metro, but with a turbo...

sigh, ok, now I have to look it up.

Ok... it was a 1-liter Suzuki Turbo-charged inline 3 cylinder engine. Haha... had 82hp, which seems absurd, but damn... it weighed ~1,500 pounds. So 82hp is not bad... I bet it was halfway quick...

[fyrffytr1]

It has been a year, hasn't it? Well, I still have the GTO and am getting it ready for our new, relocated annual show this Saturday. I have been invited to put my car inside with the really nice ones this year. It still isn't like it used to be and it won't be much longer before I decide to let the goat go to another pasture. Age and infirmity will dictate when that happens.

[kingbuzzo]

I love these torch passing posts...that's awesome!

She's even starting a video series on YouTube where she's been doing all the work herself, she's gotten really into it, and wants to basically do everything herself... except that I'm doing the editing for her... this is her most recent video:

[kingbuzzo]

Haha my buddy had one of those to offset his 440 challenger as a commuter car.,.

Let me see if I can find a picture of what one looks like...

Haha... yeah, check this out:




I guess it's the same 3 cyl engine as the Geo Metro, but with a turbo...

sigh, ok, now I have to look it up.

Ok... it was a 1-liter Suzuki Turbo-charged inline 3 cylinder engine. Haha... had 82hp, which seems absurd, but damn... it weighed ~1,500 pounds. So 82hp is not bad... I bet it was halfway quick...[/QUOTE]