[RocktimusPryme]

Some of the aftermarket companies like Powermaster claim that the 1 wire alternators are better than they used to be. Rendering some of the old complaints like low RPM production obsolete. If that is true, and not just marketing bluster, its hard to argue with going with the simplest solution.

That said I would like to know what year CS alternators make the best swaps and if there is a kit that comes with the spacers and whatnot to use them as described above.

The only problem I have had with radiation 12SI alternators is I have killed a couple of front bearings in them trying to get the belts tight enough to not make noise. Then they click audibly. Especially when using the CVF type heim joint setups. Easy to overtighten those.

[HWYSTR455]

Almost all Powermaster 'one wire' alts can be run as a 2 or more wire alt, the regulators allow/support it.

If you're tightening a 10/12si enough to kill bearings, then I would have to suspect your pulleys are worn out. And yes, they can wear out, and many times are worn out.

I had issues in the past and finally went to a full, matching set of RARE pulleys, and all the issues (squeal, slip, etc) went away. RARE is very knowledgeable about pulley series/setups, and they provide great support too.

I've seen where people have swapped to an A/C water pump pulley and not use the correct pulleys on the crank or other, or not use the +1 pulley behind the balancer pulley because they didn't have A/C. Most give up and just live with it before they figure it out.

If a belt has slipped for any length of time, even if they are visibly 'good', they should be replaced. I can't stress that enough. Belts can slip without being able to hear it too, just to say.


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[64speed]

Damn now y’all got me worried about my alternator 🤣

[TransAMrit]

Oh hey, it's my thread!

My 200A Powermaster has been working great. It's either CS130 or CS144 - I can't be sure anymore, as I lost my old notes. I had a local fabricator alter, re-weld, and grind smooth the alternator bracket, so the bracket looks unmodified.

Since then the car is twin turbocharged, generating a lot of heat, and the sound system has been upgraded to around 900W RMS, not to mention the fuel injection, distributorless ignition, electric power steering pump, etc.

No regrets about going this route!

[RocktimusPryme]

I was chasing a few different things.

1. I was throwing belts at the track.
2. I had CVF brackets but cheaped out and used factory pulleys. (So yes probably had some wear)
3. Part of my belt throwing was due to some minor misalignment at the PS pump that was due to a bolt on the bottom coming loose that I didn't see.
4. I had some erroneous thinking that the heim joint style adjuster would be tight when it was hard to turn by hand. The reality is once its hard to turn by hand the belt was way too tight.

I sorta discovered all of those things over time. Once I broke down and bought a new aluminum water pump pulley it got rid of any squeal and since I fixed the PS alignment I haven't had any tossed belts. Small sample size though since Ive only been back racing once.

For future people reading this, if I had it to do over I would have just bought the CVF serpentine kit, BUT v belts do work tolerably well, especially with new pulleys. Dont use old pulleys. Its just a crapshoot if they are true and not wasted worn out. Hard to tell visually.

Also, buy that lifetime warranty alternator because when you waste the bearings twice like I did, NAPA just gave me a new one.

[Cliff R]

Wow! Some very good information on this thread, thank you.

Just a few comments to add. Batteries and NOT made nearly as well these days as they used to be and for sure not all of them are created equal. A defective or going bad battery is NOT your friend with these things and works the piss out of your alternator creating heat which can send it to an early grave.

I'm not even sure what brands are good, OK or outstanding as it seems to be a "crap shoot" buying one and getting it to last. WAY back in the day I had the best success with Interstate and Delco batteries. I put a few Interate batteries into service that lasted for decades. Matter of fact I just had to replace one in one of my John Deere tractores that has been in service over 30 years. Yes, not a typo, was purchased in the late 1980's and finally gave up last summer.

I'm also a big advocate of using battery tenders and they are on ALL of my equipment over the Winter months. I"ve found that smaller ATV and Motorcycle batteries can die quickly if you don't keep a tender on them, not so much with full size batteries but I still like to keep them on the charger over the Winter months. My boat has dual batteries and they are tended year round since it doesn't get used all that much. I've heard posities and negatives about tending batteries, just wanted to know what the experts here have to say about that?

I'm also a big fan of the SI units and can build them in my sleep. Over the last nearly half a Century we've converted nearly all of our equipment to them, which includes my brothers collection of Farmall, International and John Deere tractors. Many of those were 6 volt systems right to start with. The SI's have done very well for us. Coincidentally I just went back thru one that we did in the late 1970's right out of High School that finally gave up and it turned out not to be the alternator, it was a break in the wiring/diode we installed as part of the conversion.

If you have a SI alternator there is a vendor on Ebay that sells rebuild kits for them with excellent USA made components. He's located in Northern Ohio and I've been buying from him for many years.

One thing I do here when replacing an alternator is to fully charge the battery before the install. It's not a good thing to "spike" the regulator the first time it's placed in service, at least that's what I was told decades ago from a local rebuilder here that I used to buy parts from. He passed many years ago but was the very best at rebuilding starters and alternators in this area. Sadly that trade is all but gone and no one around here has stepped up to take over that deal. It's just part of becoming a "replacement society" instead of rebuilding things with top quality components to make them as good as or even better than they were when new..........FWIW.......

[george kujanski]

Check with Stellar on this board for starter and alternator work.

George

[PontiacMatt72]

Leaning toward going with a simple 12si style replacement. Powermaster advertises this one (47293) at 150 amp. Planning on running the “factory wiring” (not 1-wire).

If I can get a 12si alternator *reliably* (assuming it’s reliable) producing 150 amp, relatively comparably priced to a cs130, and not have to do much modification, seems like a no-brainer. Am I missing something?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1970

[Vroom_vroom]

Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72

Leaning toward going with a simple 12si style replacement. Powermaster advertises this one (47293) at 150 amp. Planning on running the “factory wiring” (not 1-wire).

If I can get a 12si alternator *reliably* (assuming it’s reliable) producing 150 amp, relatively comparably priced to a cs130, and not have to do much modification, seems like a no-brainer. Am I missing something?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1970

Have the power master and it runs as advertised, they also test them all and give you a power out put rating at different rpm levels for reference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PontiacMatt72]

I read that some don’t (or at least, used to not) suggest surpassing 140 amps with a v-belt configuration. Is that still the recommendation? I’m currently running a v-belt setup. Anyone struggling, or successfully running, with a 150 amp (powermaster or other brand) and v-belt?

I m open to converting to serpentine belt setup later, but money is tied up in other projects for the car at the moment, need to finish current projects and enjoy the car for a little while. (Been down 2 years now)

[HWYSTR455]

Yeah, I used to have some issues with alts over 140a or so, but it does kind of depend on the load too.

Powermaster started making the 140a line rated at 150a, ansd suspect it was a breakpoint with the regulators.

I ran a 150a on the 442 without any issues with the v-belt setup, did a big segment on the 2014 Power Tour with it.

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[Slick]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Capacitors are used to store electrical energy and provide bursts of current for short times .
A capacitor connected directly to a stero amplifier, for example, will help since music has transients such as a bass drum that require short bursts of energy. For those bursts, the capacitor stabilizes the voltage at the amp and provides the needed energy. Once the transient has passed, the cap recharges from the battery feed, and the cycle repeats.

For electric fans that require high starting currents, the starting current transient may last a lot longer than the capacitor can support, even a large cap. In any case, the fan start current will be provided by the alternator, or if the alt can't provide it, the battery will. Once the fan starts up, the alt will recover and replenish the battery energy as long as the overall system load is below tha alt output capacity.

George

And, it's important to note that a discharged capacitor is effectively a short circuit to the voltage source. As it charges, the needed current will diminish. But a big cap will take awhile to charge, during which the alternator load is increased.

I've built many an amplifier/preamplifier, etc. Some diodes (like Schottky types) cannot take a joke. Exceed their maximum current rating and you'll let out the magic smoke. As long as the caps you are planning to use have a high enough ESR, you should be fine. But beware of adding lots of them, the current draw is not insignificant.

Stuart

[HWYSTR455]

I run a pair of 1.5F caps, and can attest, in my experience, prevented the constant alt destruction scenario. Search it here, I dealt with it for a pretty long time.

Someone from East Coast Elec (I think) suggested using a cap, and I said what the heck. It solved my problem in 2 cars.

I literally would keep spare alts in the trunk, and had a graveyard of burnt alts.


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[chiphead]

Very large capacitor banks (motor controllers, amps, VFDs, flash discharge, etc) often have a pre-charge circuit that provides the initial charge current through a precharge resistor to limit the inrush current. This pre charge time is typically a few seconds. Once charged, the caps are switched across the battery bank so they perform their task of transient bypass filtering. The average current drawn during operation is an integral of the instantaneous current, averaged over time. The caps provide the slugs of current needed to drive the speakers and then recharge from the battery. While the audio system may pull 100-500 amps, they only do it for a fraction of a second.

1000 watts at 14.5 volts is 68.9 amps. So the alternator needs to provide ~50A for that and then more keep the vehicle running at idle for the stereo competition. Keep in mind that no alternator can make near max output at low speeds, so the key requirement for any demanding application is the enhanced low speed output.

[Don 79 TA]

I've used various alternators, from stock to "high output"
watch the "high output" as some are just gimmicked with a different pulley to speed the crap out of it to make you think WOW it's powerful.
Also, watch your cabling and grounds, i know.... we all know that.
12si was a simple swap and did ok for a while, but with my electrical loads, the CS-144 is needed, and pretty much simple swap (i did the wire adaptor so i revert i can easily)
I also have the Mega Aleternator, but needed a different bracket with the March Serpentine setup, it's small, but it's mount points are... beefie... the low rpm output is supposed to be insane.... I haven't used it yet, but it is a work of art, and i'm gathering now not cheap by any means.
There's also another simple swap one that cranks low idle out, i want to say i think it uses a nipo style alternator, i don't recall the company, looks like plug and play, but it is NOT cheap by any means either. sorta not fond of the "looks" either
The Powermaster CS-144 has been great. my experience with the CS-133's (or are they 130s) in the past.... they will burn out quickly.... guess it depends on the quality/load placed on it. high end aftermarkets i had good results with.

[HWYSTR455]

Ok, what's a 'MEGA Alternator' ? Not sure I know that one.

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[ponjohn]

Another option is Ford 3g. 130 amp

[chiphead]

https://www.mechman.com/alternators/...des-2-pulleys/

From their website:

...Single V belt and 4 rib serpentine belts will start to slip at about 150 amps worth of load. For minimal belt slip, 240 – 370 amp alternators should not be driven by anything narrower than a 6 rib serpentine or dual-V belt drive setup.....
....
Now 150A is about 2130 watts of output power. Assuming 90% efficiency, that's 2367 watts of shaft input power. 2367/746 watts-HP gives about 3.17 HP to turn the alternator.

[Don 79 TA]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Ok, what's a 'MEGA Alternator' ? Not sure I know that one.

.

I'd have to look at my bookmarks on my laptop, if it even works anymore
but i think this might have been the place that had them.
https://www.mechman.com/alternators/...ator-polished/

i know it was called "Mega" and it was a custom case, 12 Oclock mounting tabs. i'd have to look through my stash to find it. i know i have it. It certainly was a work of art and at the time i was going for custom show car looks.
However.... i do call BS on their amp ratings, as the higher they were, it was a pulley change, again... just spinning faster at lower rpms and claiming it makes more power, but i am no expert so maybe it does????? but i do remember significant price difference for what seemed to be just a pulley change. when your spidey signals go off and make you go.... hmmmmmm
you know.... sort of like put this magnet on your fuel line and get 10 mpgs more......

it's been at least 8 years since i've searched for one, but when i did, i saw it
i don't recall the other site that used i think it was a Nipo style alternator???something Asian???? and it was something they made to replace the 10si/12si. wasn't cheap, but the feedback reviews were all impressive. it was small case too

One could do a double alt setup... yikes... talk about adding weight.... and wiring complexity

again, easy swap and effective to me was either a high amp 12si, or the CS-144.
the 144 gets my nod, easy, cost effective, very good low rpm output

[ta6point6]

Have a CS130 on 79 TA and no problems so far. I changed mainly because of having AC working again. On the hot days I have the blower fan on high almost all the time since the fan speeds of 79 does not compare to fan output of modern cars. At idle you can hear fan slow down, good article here

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/al...nkyard-builder