[69gtocv]

LOL. I should have kept reading the q&a's. Here's Borgesons answer about valve weight/torsion bar:

MICHAEL · 2 years ago
Borgeson Universal 800130 - Borgeson 800 Series Power Steering Boxes
what is the valve weight on this steering box? I've heard of 35lb valve and a lower valve weight. This is important and if it cant be answered I will be ordering from somewhere who can tell me.

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Borgeson
Borgeson · a year ago
Our box has a completely different valve than the Saginaw/Delphi 800 series boxes or Delphi 600 series boxes and the valve weight you are requesting dose not directly compare. Feel is similar to a Saginaw/Delphi 35lb.

[1968GTO421]

What a mess! I'll stay with my OEM box. It has full turning radius. Yes it's a little touchy on the highway compared to newer cars, but I've spent decades driving older cars with this system and really no complaints. All makes were steered like this to a greater or less degree. My larger sway bars front and rear help it handle really well here in the southern Appalachians. I can find more important things to spend $400-500 on that will really help my GTO more. I like David's response in post #23. If my OEM box needs a rebuild best to spend my time finding a quality rebuilder. Ultimately I really don't need super quick steering like my wife's late model SUV/Crossover whichever. It's still a damn station wagon to these old eyes, nomenclature aside. FWIW

[64speed]

I used the Borgeson. Its great!

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I used the Borgeson. Its great!

If its the Borgeson 800130 box with the correct steering stops that is good news. I'm still cautious on this but pending any action for now.
Who did you get your Borgeson from with the correct A-body steering stops?
Did you have to specify that your Tempest is an A-body, not an F- or X-body?

Thankyou, David.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

If its the Borgeson 800130 box with the correct steering stops that is good news. I'm still cautious on this but pending any action for now.
Who did you get your Borgeson from with the correct A-body steering stops?
Did you have to specify that your Tempest is an A-body, not an F- or X-body?

Thankyou, David.

Did you know the Borgeson facility and sales office is in Travelers Rest?

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Did you know the Borgeson facility and sales office is in Travelers Rest?

THANKYOU David, I didn't know that. Wow that's within 3 miles of my house. I need to check that out!

Post#46 by roger1 seems to resolve the difficulties surrounding A-body vs F-body steering boxes and travel stops.

[64speed]

I bought it from a speed shop called Yogis. I would have to lookup the number I have but it works great

[roger1]

The Borgeson 800130 has 88 degrees of total travel. A stock Saginaw 800 A body box as well as 67-81 F Body 800 boxes have 87 degrees. Virtually the same. All owners of the Borgeson box that have posted in this thread have said they work great in their cars.
It's only the 3 generation of F Bodies that had boxes that limited the travel of the Saginaw 800 from 60 to 70 degrees of travel according to this article:
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/cc...g-box-upgrade/

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by roger1

The Borgeson 800130 has 88 degrees of total travel. A stock Saginaw 800 A body box as well as 67-81 F Body 800 boxes have 87 degrees. Virtually the same. All owners of the Borgeson box that have posted in this thread have said they work great in their cars.
It's only the 3 generation of F Bodies that had boxes that limited the travel of the Saginaw 800 from 60 to 70 degrees of travel according to this article:
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/cc...g-box-upgrade/

The article specifies that the 3rd Gen F-body boxes have restricted travel. It doesn't say that the 1st and 2nd generation boxes don't have restricted travel.

Look at one of the actual references that article mentions:
https://www.chevelles.com/threads/sa...#post-11389061

Most 1st and 2nd Gen F- (and similar-year X-) bodies are restricted to ~70 degrees of travel. About 35 degrees either direction.

A '75 Nova (X-body) steering gear DESTROYED the turning radius of my '68 'Camino.

I was wrong about the PS hose connectors on the '79--81 F-body box posted earlier. The hose connectors changed for '80, I thought they changed earlier than that. If he got a '79 box, the hose connections would have been a direct match for the existing hoses on the vehicle. If it was an '80--'81, the hose connections would have been the O-ring style instead of the inverted-flare.

[b-man]

I found a quick ratio power steering box for my ‘64 Le Mans convertible in the local Pick-Your-Part yard for $40. This was over 20 years ago, good luck finding anything like that nowadays in one of those yards.

I pulled it off of a ‘79 -‘81 WS6 T/A, I scouted out a box that showed no signs of seal leakage that i could clean, paint and use it as-is. The steering coupler and lines all mated right up. I put a seal kit in my power steering pump and it’s working fine, so there are ways to get a quicker power box on the cheap.

I’m guessing this one is a 15:1 ratio as it has 3 turns lock to lock, much nicer than that 4-1/2 turn original power box. Seems to make low speed turns while parking and U-turns just fine, I don’t have to make a 10-point turn just to turn around on my street.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by b-man

I found a quick ratio power steering box... ...off of a ‘79 -‘81 WS6 T/A, The steering coupler and lines all mated right up...

I’m guessing this one is a 15:1 ratio as it has 3 turns lock to lock, much nicer than that 4-1/2 turn original power box. Seems to make low speed turns while parking and U-turns just fine, I don’t have to make a 10-point turn just to turn around on my street.

1. Your original PS hoses should be set-up to seal against an inverted flare. The new box should be set up for an O-ring seal. There's an adapter insert kit that can be pounded into the new box to provide an inverted flare seal. No idea why yours isn't leaking. Are you using the hoses from the new box on your vehicle, or your vehicle's hoses on the new box?

2. The F-body uses steering stops in the box. Probably about 30--35 degrees of Pitman arm travel. The older A-body would use steering stops on the knuckle and lower control arm, and 45-ish degrees of Pitman arm travel. So again, I don't understand how you're not seeing a restricted turning radius.

[Sirrotica]

Back in the 70s, early 80s, one of the first things to get removed from second gen T/As was the steering boxes in yards. I've swapped a good many back in the day. They were usually under 50 bucks used.

[70GS455]

The Carhex box is affordable

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Skip Fix]

I could have sworn I read A body and second gen F body cars have a different degree of turn one with stops the other without.

[1968GTO421]

I may check out Borgeson's facility for the hell of it. But possibility of getting a box with restricted travel is money I can't risk since there doesn't seem to be a way to check it easily without taking the box apart. I've checked boneyards for a 75 mile radius and only found "antique" cars from the 1980's. Older ones were sent to the crusher years ago. No good chance of finding a good used box there.
I believe I need to stay by my words in post #39. Thanks to all who have posted here with good info.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

I've checked boneyards for a 75 mile radius and only found "antique" cars from the 1980's. Older ones were sent to the crusher years ago. No good chance of finding a good used box there.

1992--1998 Jeep GRAND Cherokee steering gear is a near-drop-in replacement for the '64--'72 A-body.

Fast ratio, second-biggest torsion bar. ~88 degrees of Pitman arm travel--about 44 degrees each way. Almost perfect.

Dirt-cheap at a Treasure Yard. Clearly, you want one from a sealed system so there's no dirt or water entry, and low-mileage would be recommended.

Will require new-style O-ring hoses, or the inverted-flare adapters with original style hoses, or the O-ring-to-37 degree flare "JIC" connectors for hot-roddy PS hoses.

Needs a commercially-available rag joint assembly, but your rag joint is probably wiped-out and needs replacement anyway. MAYBE you can adapt the Jeep U-joint system to the A-body steering column, and if so, that would be better still.

I'd prefer a genuine Jeep unit scored at a Treasure Yard, however you could roll the dice on a rebuilt unit from your favorite parts-store (NAPA, O'Reillys, Advance, etc.) but you need to know that the mass-market rebuilders DO NOT guarantee that they use "correct" torsion bars or "correct" gear ratios in the rebuilt units.

[roger1]

You don't have to worry about it with the Borgeson 800130. It's a completely new box, not a rebuilt and it is stated by them that it has 88 degrees of travel.

[grivera]

28% is steep and I totally understand having to return the stuff but imagine if lots of folks do that - they can’t resell the items so I assume it eats into their bottom line one way or another and eventually it makes it hard on everyone else. It’s like Costco’s unlimited return policy- used to be for all items but many started buying TVs just for big sporting events and then returning. Now their return policy excludes TVs and computer/electronics with ECUs. I still see people dragging in old worn items bought years prior and beyond the reasonable life cycle for cash back. Sooner or later that will result in stricter limits

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by grivera

28% is steep and I totally understand having to return the stuff but imagine if lots of folks do that - they can’t resell the items so I assume it eats into their bottom line one way or another and eventually it makes it hard on everyone else. It’s like Costco’s unlimited return policy- used to be for all items but many started buying TVs just for big sporting events and then returning. Now their return policy excludes TVs and computer/electronics with ECUs. I still see people dragging in old worn items bought years prior and beyond the reasonable life cycle for cash back. Sooner or later that will result in stricter limits

They cracked down here with the whole toilet paper debacle. Remember back when the beer flu hit and everyone was buying up all the toilet paper and paper towels? Well when that all settled down there was a return line at Costco that went around the building, all the people returning toilet paper they didn't need anymore.
Not only were these people ridiculous, Costco here had to put a stop to it and stopped accepting the returns. LOL

If the people were smart, they'd realize they would use it eventually anyway, or be a humanitarian for once and just donate some to charity or your local Goodwill. There are still other people that need it too. Bunch of thoughtless hoards.

I completely understand why business has to eventually put a foot down. To be honest, if I had a customer that kept coming back for this or that expecting refunds to a point it was becoming excessive, I'd probably tell him to start going somewhere else too.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

They cracked down here with the whole toilet paper debacle. Remember back when the beer flu hit and everyone was buying up all the toilet paper and paper towels? Well when that all settled down there was a return line at Costco that went around the building, all the people returning toilet paper they didn't need anymore.
Not only were these people ridiculous, Costco here had to put a stop to it and stopped accepting the returns. LOL

If the people were smart, they'd realize they would use it eventually anyway, or be a humanitarian for once and just donate some to charity or your local Goodwill. There are still other people that need it too. Bunch of thoughtless hoards.

I completely understand why business has to eventually put a foot down. To be honest, if I had a customer that kept coming back for this or that expecting refunds to a point it was becoming excessive, I'd probably tell him to start going somewhere else too.

Absolutely ridiculous- WTH is wrong with people? I remember how difficult it was getting the paper goods there in 2020. If everyone bought only what they actually needed there would have been enough for everyone…smdh