[Jay S]

Good job X3…

And give us a report when you make it back to the track…

[glhs#116]

Yeah. That feels right. I should be good to go for Street Weekend now so barring surprises like some other bad failure or a ton or rain I should have some times to share by Monday...

Thanks again, all!

https://santapod.co.uk/street-weeken...?ID=2779#photo

[glhs#116]

Well, it's a wrap on Street Weekend. Mixed results if I'm honest.

It was touch and go right at the start. Went off to Stockton with the wife to get cars washed. Came back on my own and punched it a bit on the way back. Is that? Yes it is. Not nearly as bad as before but clearly smoke. Well, I was home first so I figured I had a little time. Out with the plugs and the good news was that only #2 and #7 showed oil. The oiling problem on #6 seemed fixed. So, with departure the next day I figured just hit all I can with those two. Out with the rocker studs for #2 and #7 for a good clean and re-application of thread locking sealant. Out with the head bolts for the #2 and #7 end and cleaned the bolt heads and washers and inside the holes. Then Right Stuff RTV to try to seal those holes. Let it all set overnight.

Left in the morning for Santa Pod. It's a bit over 200 miles away and a full professional 1/4 mile drag strip and represents the location for day 1 of the event. Got within about 20 miles of the place when I slowed for a roundabout. As I pulled away I could clearly hear I was on 7 cylinders. Drove to Santa Pod, got signed in, pulled the plugs. Seven of them looked fine but #7 was fouled shut. It was gross. Managed to find another plug from a fellow racer and set three times. First time I didn't know how to start on the new track. Second time I was still learning and went slower than my first. Third run I had a good start but the car was breaking up badly in the top end and I lost power. It was still my fastest run thanks to the good start. A 13.02! It was really hard to leave nearly 12s on the table but I didn't want to hurt the car especially with such a long event still to do. Found a place near the Pod that could get me 8 more plugs and I set off the next day to Melbourne up north (my home track, an unprepped 1/8 mile).

#7


Santa Pod


Almost 12s


I was really stressed the whole drive up. I'd also lost a nut on the exhaust and I nearly didn't notice to add oil (from the burning I'd lost some -- went through 4.5 litres of oil in the 600 miles). The route up north was intentionally over a twisty remote mountain road called Snake Pass. And then a stop at a great engine building shop called Engine Data Analysis where the owner and I got a chance to open up side by side on the M62 motorway on the way to his house to get a nut for my exhaust. He's got a wicked little street racing Mustang II with a big block in it. Anyway, got to Melbourne and set a really bad time. Then a worse time. Then had a run that felt a lot better but was the same as my first. That's where I stopped again.

Now both of these were really hot days. Santa Pod is a fully prepped track that I'd never run on. But Melbourne is my home track and I was really expecting the car to at least match previous times I'd set. Of course, it's probably on both days the hottest weather I've run it in. Anyway, with the car still in one piece and going through spark plugs like sweeties I decided to bug out on day 2 and not drive back to Santa Pod for the last day. Made it home in one piece but after pulling all the plugs I can see that #2 is still getting a bit of oil. Just not nearly as much as before and nothing like what is happening to #7. I think I changed out #7 five or maybe six times on the way back.

Just before leaving Melbourne


I'm convinced now that I need to just get a new set of gaskets and bolts and pull these heads. I'm not going to be able to seal them properly with them on the car.

But performance wise I'm really scratching my head. 13.02 at 106 (and other two runs at 107 but much worse starts) seems pretty flipping good to me. With them went good 1/8 mile times including an 8.36 beating anything I'd run before at Melbourne (although, again, Melbourne is no-prep). But at Melbourne I couldn't even get the sorts of times I was used to getting. No idea how much of that is the weather and how much is whatever power I was bound to be down on #7 and #2. But seat-of-pants the car definitely felt good and strong.

I'm not driving it again until I can get the heads off and seal the hell out of them. This has honestly been so frustrating. But I'm glad I was able to do at least part of Street Weekend and that the car made it home.

Sam

[Dragncar]

Well, 13 flat with a 2 second 60 foot is not that bad.
Keep at it, its got some good power.
Back when I was running 107 mph I had 60 foots in the low 1.5s.

[Jay S]

Driving you car that far, racing it, and driving it home with the various issues you are working thru on the car.. Your my hero!

[glhs#116]

Buckle up, pilgrims. The heads are coming off. Hopefully tomorrow. I've got the exhaust manifolds detached and everything else that attaches to the heads. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have them out and in my hot little hands again. Should be able to get to the bottom of the oil ingress...

[steve25]

Ok, I am strapped in Sam, so let’s have a good look.

May I recommend to you doing this.
Without taking the heads apart pour some synthetic oil down into each intake port and rock the head around to coat the whole seat area of the valve bowl.

Where doing this just to seal that area so we can pour in Alcohol.

Next set the head up in a position such that the intake flange is basically level.

Now fill the port up with rubbing Alcohol that you have colored up some with India ink or red or blue layout dye.

Now look for leaks into those 4 darn head bolt
holes .

It might be better to pick up a gallon of Lantern Alcohol since you may need near 2000 CCs of the stuff.

Be real careful with this stuff, treat it as if you where working with the fumes from gasoline!

[glhs#116]

OK. Well, it's the middle of the work day but I work from home...

I snuck out to the garage to peer in the intake ports with the dollar store borescope. It may be terrible quality but it still gets into places I can't with the phone.

So, the places where leakage is occurring aren't that hard to see. I guess the bigger question will be how my sleeving failed to seal them off. But again I think I can do a much btter job of that with the heads off...

#2 runner


#6 runner


#7 runner

[steve25]

Yes, that’s clear to see.

It’s far easier to seal that up right with the heads off!

I don’t think that when I sleeve and seal up push rod holes on ported heads that I could get it right with the heads bolted on.

You should have never did the grinding work there that you did.
It picked up air flow that your intake can’t keep up with!

You will get it all right this time, I mean you gave it your best shot with the heads on and my hats off to you for that effort!

[glhs#116]

All right, so here's a little catch-up. Things are going pretty slowly here because I've got almost no time free to work on this and also I'm waiting for parts.

I did manage to get both heads off and the problems with #2 and #7 are pretty plain to see.

#7


#2


Another thing of note to happen was that I actually found a source for 17/32" tubing. I'd previously been opening out 1/2" tubing by forcing it over some old head bolts. This did expand it but left it uneven. The 17/32" stuff arrived today and it's night and day.

I also determined the right length. The actual hole depth is 3.5" on my Edelbrock head. After doing my first tube this length I was in the awkward position of having to try to trim it. The tubes I'd done when the head was in I shot for about 3". That in fact proved too short for good coverage. 3.25" seems about the sweet spot.

3.25 inches is the right length


17/32" is the right diameter


I'm mainly making these notes for the sake of the next guy..

There's more to tell but you only get four pics per post.

[glhs#116]

So, another little thing I found was that the one oil pan rail gasket is torn. I saw this when I was accessing the block drain bolts. Explains why oil was always getting on the starter. SO it looks like the pan is coming off before this is all over. Looks like I'll have another thing to expect at that time...

I couldn't find an issue with #6. Rocker stud seemed well sealed (well, clearly I had to seal it again after busting it out). In fact, the threads for #6 rocker stud don't even go into the intake. Took the spring out, valve seal seems fine. Can't see any light through the headbolt wall. So I looked down the hole.

Well, well, well... Flip

Looks like the meteor shot from the original Superman movie where Superman's "parents" find him


That is definitely what you call "foreign object damage". Thing is, heads haven't been off since I last put the Edelbrocks on in Qatar 2019. First time they came off was to do the porting in February or so. Of course, that time I put the engine on TDC before I took them off. So on the old pics you can't see the cylinder because #1 and #6 are right at the top of the bore. But I know no screws or such went in. I also know nothing happened in the top because there's no marks in the chamber or on the piston crown.

I was thinking about this last night and I think I know what's up. My factory valve covers still have most of their drippers. I say most because about ten years ago I didn't have tall gaskets and they all got bent a little. Every now and then one comes off. I picked one out of the drainage area of a head just yesterday.

Well, the drains in these heads are big enough for a dripper to water-slide down into the crank area. Not to hard to imagine one was thrown into #6 and got caught under the skirt. Probably there right now, in fact.

When I take the pan off I'll pop the #6 rod and see if I can see. I'm guessing I can't do much about using a little oil on #6. Looks like a bottom end rebuild is in my future...

Meantime I intend to seal these heads up good and tight. Hopefully seal the pan too. It doesn't rain but it pours, eh?

Tube in for #6 and #8


Tube in and looking nice for #2 and #4


Hole blocked in #2 runner


Sam

[steve25]

Dam!
This really is a painful thing to see Sam!
When you do pop that piston out I might have on hand a new set of rings to swap on.

Your tube sleeving work looks great and you can put all that mess behind you now I would say.

[glhs#116]

Well, I haven't posted in a while since I guess everyone else is as fed up as me. But damnit I'm going to get to the bottom of this.

July, as I said, I took off the pan. Pan seal wasn't great so I resealed it but no bits in the bottom. Tidied up a few things and threw it together with high hopes. I put in an all new set of head bolts at the same time since I didn't like how many cycles I'd done on the others. ARP again of course. All plugs were oil free now (yes, even #6) apart from the one that had always been worst, #7. The bugger. Oily as ever. I was still heading out to the races and I could confirm that it had to be from the heads not the bottom because the car looks clean on a run. But if, for example, I'm on the road and overtake someone I'll get the blue smoke as I coast back down. Or if I leave it running in the garage it will start to do a thin blue haze up in the roof.

September I did a compression test all round which showed that compression in holes hadn't changed. #6 was a little down as it always has been (it's the sleeved one and the one I found that groove in) but, significantly, #7 had as good compression as ever and maybe a teensy bit more. So that really made me think I'm still looking for the problem up top. I checked the valve seal again to make sure it was well seated (remember, I've replaced all the seals twice). Then I took out #7 rocker stud again and gooped it up well to try to seal it. It has been bugging me that I always have to clean up the threads. The stud comes out with a shiny glaze on them. I run a tap on it and the hole and it screws in tight but it felt to me like maybe the threads gaul a little..

Another race weekend, another oily #7. Good thing I have a big bag of spark plugs.. This is really pissing me off now.

I decided to review. Looked over my notes and pictures. One thing I can tell is that my two heads came from slightly different batches I guess. Or went to different machining stations. Both heads have valve cover holes that don't go through to the intake. But passenger head has rocker stud holes that are mostly blind. One or two have a slight crack into the intake runner but for the most part they are practically blind holes. On #2 I even had to slightly shorten the stud threads to stop it bottoming out. Driver's side head the rocker stud holes all clearly poke through into intake runners but #7 is definitely the worst having more than 50% of its area, maybe 60%, open to intake vacuum. I reasoned that it probably is slightly harder to seal since it gets more suction. But still hard to see how it pulls so much oil through either the new well-seated valve seal, the now fully sleeved headbolt hole, or the rocker stud which I put sealer on.

Anyway, I got my caliper out and sure enough the rocker stud hole is pretty deep. There's a good quarter inch of space at the bottom of the stud when it is fully installed. I decided to really go for it and found a rubber plug about the right diameter. I put RTV around it and put it in the bottom of the hole. Sealed up the stud in the normal way and installed. Figured maybe that would do it at last.

It was a while until I could drive again. Headed out to a car meet at the OK Diner on the A19 near me





Anyway, I was chatting there to Daz, who is a cool guy who has a shop in Middlesbrough called DC's Rod and Custom (and is the owner of "Carolina Blue" in the picture) about my struggles and he asked me if the rocker stud hole threads are bare or have inserts. I wasn't sure, now that I thought about it. I'd noticed the exhaust bolt holes had wire-type thread inserts but never paid attention to the rocker stud holes. Since I kept getting silvering on the thread of the stud I assumed maybe they were bare aluminium. He was telling me that they normally don't have much trouble sealing up threads but if I were doing inserts I should get these Wurth Time-sert ones that are solid.

Well, I got back from that meet OK. Took the car out again a few days later and passed a guy. As I coasted back down I saw the unmistakable blue in the rear mirror. Pulled #7 and sure enough...



Well, of course I wanted to burn the car down, really. Only I didn't. What I wanted was the non oil-burning car I had before I took a grinder to my heads...

Anyway. As desperate as all of this felt I'm not much of a quitter. I was thinking that really the one thing I could do -- pain in the arse and cost me a set of gaskets -- is to swap the heads left to right. I'd have to move the water plugs, of course. But I would know once and for all if the oil followed the head or stayed with the hole.

But then I just got kinda depressed because even with all I've done I think it's pretty clear it's head. I started looking at my old pics from the various tear downs I've done this year and I saw pretty clearly that the rocker stud holes do have wire type inserts. Then I did some googling around and looking at these Wurth thread inserts. An idea started to form.

So, here's what I'm thinking:

Valve seals: I'm not buying it. Replaced twice. Seals are seated. Valve stem not damaged. Guides not loose...

Headbolt holes: Clearly were an issue for #2 and #6, both of which stopped taking oil when I got them properly sleeved. I guess the sleeve for #7 could look good and still seep but given the amount of fouling on a short drive... I'm not buying it.

Rocker stud: As many times as I've sealed that bugger it remains my prime suspect..

What if those wire thread inserts are moving and wallering out the aluminium on the back side of the wire inserts when I tighten the stud and they get pulled. Since they are like a spring I figure they can move a fair amount and even stretch and change thread pitch. I guess I could be in a situation where I seal the bolt threads to the insert pretty well and oil can just migrate around behind the thread insert "threads" where I guess it is just getting looser each time I take out the stud and put it back.

So I'm thinking of ordering a Wurth 7/16-14 "Big Sert" kit (it's a "second time" kit which I guess I need because the hole already has a heli-coil type insert) and see if the solid insert seals nicely to the head. Then just thread seal the stud and cross fingers. It's not a cheap option but what do you think? What can I be missing here?

Sam

[steve25]

Sam are you using these type of Viton valve seals?

A fellow I was doing some head work for and then later myself had a issue with these.

In total 3 different bags of these where bagged worng.

They where seals for 3/8” stem valves not 11/32”.

The proper seal will measure .311” or so on its ID if it’s the right seal for a 11/32” valve stem like you have.

Maybe your number 7 intake seal is one of these wrong ones?

[glhs#116]

Steve,

I guess anything is possible. The first set of seals I put on were a set of Sealed Power seals I had left over. I know they were 11/32". For the second set I actually ordered the Edelbrock seals that Edelbrock sell for the head. I know it will just be a rebrand but it should be the same damned seal they build them with, right? That's what is on there now.

Edelbrock are too cheap to give you the little install condom but I had a couple from the Sealed Power set and I used them with plenty oil both times. That's why the only thing I could think of was a seal maybe "riding up". But they are all down and seated...

Sam

[slowbird]

Not saying this is your issue and not sure what head gasket you are using but if you are using stock type head gaskets (like FelPro) the head bolt holes in the gaskets are elongated enough theybreach into the valley of the block on those center intake head bolts (see pic). It will suck oil up through there if that area isn't sealed and there is a hole in the head bolt boss (like you have).
If you are running gaskets like this I would swap them out for Cometic ones which don't have those head bolt holes elongated liked that.

[glhs#116]

Slowbird,

Yeah. I've got gaskets like that (FelPro 1016 I think). But I sleeved the headbolt hole from top to bottom so I'm hoping that part is sealed. Thin wall tubing. Not wrinkled or damaged. Loctite on the outside. I'm hoping that's not it but honestly, I don't know. No trouble with other holes now though. Only #7

Sam

[steve25]

Sorry this is the picture I did not post.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by glhs#116

Slowbird,

Yeah. I've got gaskets like that (FelPro 1016 I think). But I sleeved the headbolt hole from top to bottom so I'm hoping that part is sealed. Thin wall tubing. Not wrinkled or damaged. Loctite on the outside. I'm hoping that's not it but honestly, I don't know. No trouble with other holes now though. Only #7

Sam

After all you have gone through you might want to look into replacing the head gaskets with one's that have holes vs a slot in that area. Just to be safe.

[glhs#116]

OK. So I've been doing a bunch of googling and reading since I don't want to go off half cocked and there's a bunch of things I could just "do". I'm thinking of doing an oversized timesert on the #7 intake rocker stud hole. But the kit is like close to £200 with shipping etc and I really don't know why it shouldn't seal. The other studs seem to, right? I'm thinking of ruling out intake valve seal. Not only have I replaced it more than once but I have seen people say that even without a seal that much oil shouldn't leak on the plug that fast. I've seen a number of people with a similar issue from an intake that just isn't sealing up properly. I know I once had an issue where the valley pan gasket stopped a corner of the intake seating perfectly but I just can't see that drawing enough oil. I mean, I am having to add a litre in under 1000 miles. It's burning a fair amount somehow. I kinda think that headbolt hole should be sealed now but how can I tell?

Let's not forget the number one reason I doubt this is bottom end-related.. Before I took the heads off to do this porting I didn't have oil burning or fouling of plugs.. Coincidence does happen but colour me sceptical.

If this was your head and your situation how would you handle it? Is there a way I can actually trace where the oil is coming from?

Sam