[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Engine building involves close attention to detail, careful parts selection, and exact precision, at least if you want it to lead a long healthy life.

Right to start with assume nothing. Those heads that you had done aren't going to make the grade so plan on stripping them completely down and having a full set of guides put in them and new one piece valves, springs, etc. You can retain the Pontiac retainers and locks, nothing out there is any better and most of the aftermarket stuff considerably heavier.

Toss that POS low end 3 keyway timing chain set in the nearest dumpster as well.

I'd re-use the crank and outfit the engine with a good set of forged rods and modern forged pistons (all installed in the correct direction and orientation). Modern forgings with the right alloy can be run nearly as tight as cast pistons and you get better ring packs, much stronger parts and full floating so you don't have to "cook" the rods to press the pins in place.

I'd stick with a flat tappet cam but insist on USA made lifters. If Comp is DLC coating them even better. The last couple of flat tappet engines I did here used camshafts that I sent out to be "coated". It's an ion-bond process and they come back looking like black chrome plated. Without any oil at all they claim lubricity equivalent to using 5W-30 motor oil. In any case it's cheap insurance and for a couple of hundred bucks that it costs, if nothing else, you'll sleep better at night.

Plan on balancing the spinning assembly, and decking and squaring the block. Measure the bore and locate good pistons in the desired over-bore size. During that deal establish tight quench (.035-.040") and the true static compression ratio so you can make the right cam choice so it runs fine on this new fuel.

I've done more of these engines than most who will read this, and push for higher compression which makes more power at every RPM and allows for more camshaft with less negatives, so NOT part of the "lowering compression for pump gas then turn right around and install some short seat timing fancy whiz-bang lobe profile Cam to get some of the lost power back" crowd.

Like your way too long running thread on the FUBAR'D engine still sitting between the fenders you'll get a LOT of advice. Mine is simple and aside from a few upgrades with better rods/pistons/ring pack I'd keep it simple and fairly close to "stock" in many areas.

I am NOT a big fan of roller rocker arms and have found most to be nothing but pieces of bovine excrement so stick with stock stamped steel with solid balls in them for most "mild" builds done here. If you go to the aftermarket, the only ones I'd endorse are Crane Gold Race (not even sure if you can get them these days), Harland Sharp or Crower Enduro. ALL the others that I've tried have failed, someplace in long term service. Ya, I know, lots of folks use all sorts of these imported junk Rockers w/o issues, but at my shop, I've had issues with everything that isn't listed above.

I think that what we see with the engine building experience is that few of these rebuilt engines see very much actual time driving them, these days. Most owners take them out on a few nice Sunday afternoons, for a burger and a coke, maybe hit a local Dairy Queen, car cruise once or twice and might stop by their local track, a couple of Friday evenings for a "test and tune" session. A reality check is in order, there for evaluating parts. Driving a mere 300 miles a year vs several thousand or more won't tell you if parts that you used, makes the grade.

Not only did I build engines for almost half a Century, I've had scores of them driven (usually limped up here), towed, trailered and dragged up here with issues, right after "fresh" engine installs, but "NOTHING" was working well. So, I get to see problems at a user level and see what happens when poor choices are made with lack of attention to detail, using crappy parts and poor attempts at establishing optimum timing with poor fuel curves, that otherwise would insure a good end result.

In any case after many years of your engine not making the grade with multiple unsuccessful attempts to get it up to par, it's certainly time to remove it from the vehicle, open up the wallet and give it the time and attention it desperately needs.......IMHO......

Mikes reply:

Our goal is to pull out the 1967 Pontiac 428 ci HO with a 1966 Tri-power Intake and Rochester Carbs. this weekend, we are putting the last coats of black paint on the modified Hoist from Harbour freight. So many decisions to contemplate here, once I micrometer the Engine, we all will know more of what direction to take, with this tired Timepiece.

I believe that I can depend on Butler performance to sell me a complete rebuild kit, using the parts that they suggest, this way there won't be any excuse for using faulty parts that fail, before their time.

I would like to use all the parts that I have purchased over the past ten years, as this is a light build, If I want Real HP, I just assume start from scratch, using the amalgamation of aftermarket parts, that are specific to Pontiac, starting with a KRE Block, for example.

I have no problem with an over bore with new Pistons and Rods and all new bearings plus a rear main seal. I want to keep every other part that I have invested in over the years including the Harmonic Balancer and Flexplate that I just replaced.

The Heads are going back to receive the Brass Valve guides plus the exhaust Valve bosses will be cut back and properly sealed, for a complete long-lasting proper overall remanufactured Head job. I told the rebuilder that he should shim the springs for even spring pressure. This way when I do decide to sell this motor, I will undoubtedly know it is built correctly. I will install the engine in this vehicle and test and tune it to perfection, I might as well do that at the Track. That will be a new experience for me, I believe that I might even like it.