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#21
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As said, the PRW rockers are questionable. However...is it the ROCKERS that don't clear the valve cover, or is it the polylocks holding the rockers in place? Generally, it's the polylocks, and it's easy to buy shorter ones. Then you don't need the valve cover spacers, which allows you to lift the rear of the engine.
Make sure the fan still rides OK in the fan shroud, the radiator hoses aren't kinked, and the distributor clears the firewall acceptably. If the transmission has the back-drive linkage up to the steering column, you'll want to assure that it still works properly--maybe needs adjustment. |
#22
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Seems like shimming the tailshaft of trans and tapered leaf spring shims you could make it happier
I used these type of shims to keep the old style traction bars up off the ground and closer to the front leaf https://www.summitracing.com/search/...f-spring-shims Last edited by Formulas; 02-28-2024 at 06:36 PM. |
#23
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Total novice here trying to learn. I did not know I could have went with shorter polylocks, that is an eye opener. First time dealing with Hyd. roller cam or roller rockers. However, you guys have already educated me and probably some others about how suspect the PRW steel roller rockers are. I'm open to suggestions. I read online (so you know it's true) aluminum roller rockers are only good for 20-30K miles. I don't know that to be true, I'm sure a lot of you do know if that's a fact or not. I want longevity if that's possible using roller rockers. If not, I can go with a good set of plain old stamped steel rockers. Obviously the consensus is PRW is junk, so, I'm all ears. Cliff and others went with Crower Enduro. Can they stand up to pleasure driving on the weekends or join up on the Power Tour? Just want to drive my car. Mine is just a street motor: 4.21 early N crank, 4.21 bore, eagle rods, Ross pistons +0.060". Comp 224/230, 503/510, 4-7 swap mild hyd. roller, Butler Built Edelbrock CNC 87CC Round Port 61525 hyd. roller heads w/Holley Sniper Quadrajet. Just trying to get it going before I'm too old to enjoy it. Thanks
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
#24
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The Crower Enduros are the top choice, I’m planning to use my car the same way as you, so that’s why I spent the money for them.
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73 T/A 455, 4speed |
#25
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I don't race, but I do want to drive the car all I want. My weekends might be anywhere from 150- 400 miles. I'm looking at this set from Summit: Crower Enduro Stainless Steel Stud Mount Roller Rocker Arms 73627-16 Is this Overkill or are these the ones I need for dependability. Summit doesn't stock them, they're drop-shipped from Crower. takes about a month it looks like. Thanks for your help.
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
#26
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That Canada thing! Funny Cool.
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
#27
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I bought mine from Butler because they had them in stock and they were cheaper than Summit. While I was on the phone with Butler, I asked why they still sold the PRW crap, and that I was a little disappointed with them for not recommending these in the first place.. Could have saved a few hundred $ by getting the right thing the first time. The response was that the PRW‘s are good enough in the right conditions, for me that was a very poor answer, but I shut up and bought the Crower Enduros from them anyway because I was saving an extra 50 bucks or so over summit, and the rest of the stuff Butler sold me was great.
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73 T/A 455, 4speed |
#28
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I bought my PRW roller rockers from them. They only build Pontiac's, I was trusting their recommendation. They gotta know from plenty of their customers contacting them about PRW failures. What you told them, is what I intend to tell them. Thank you Nas T Eh .
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
#29
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I started this post asking questions about (Bad Driveline Angle) and how to remedy my problem with too much engine/trans angle making the driveshaft run uphill because the valve covers were an inch higher than stock. Thanks to all of your comments and clarification I'm hoping to eliminate that issue. This takes me to a new question...
I ordered new Crower Enduro Stainless Steel Stud Mount Roller Rocker Arms 73627-16. Two adjustable pushrod checking tools, I already have valve checking springs so I can see if changing rockers changes my pushrod length ??? I have been doing this a pretty long time like some of you, but, I do not consider myself anything even close to being a pro. #1: My question/questions is/are... Per Morel's website, they list my lifters as having 0.120" of preload travel. I read a post from Cliff here on the forum that he runs a deeper preload than a mere 1/2 - 3/4 turn on adjusting nut on his engines so they run quiet. My engine has a distinct tick to it. I discovered that the person who built mine did not put much preload on any of my lifters. I was thinking Cliff said he sets his at about .060"-.070". I will reread his post on that. I want mine quiet also. #2: Because my cam is hydraulic, can I follow my old way of adjusting hydraulic valves, with certain valves adjusted on #1 @ TDC and the remaining on #6 @ TDC ? Also, because my cam has the 4/7 lobe swap, can I follow the chart I made (see below) to do that? Hydraulic Valve Adjustment (With Standard 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 Firing Order) Turn Crankshaft @ 0* #1 TDC @ #1 TDC: Int. 1-2-5-7 @ #1 TDC: Exh. 1-3-4-8 Turn Crankshaft 360* #6 TDC @ #6 TDC: Int. 3-4-6-8 @ #6 TDC: Exh. 2-5-6-7 Hydraulic Valve Adjustment (With 4/7 Swap 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2 Firing Order) @ #1 TDC: Int. 1-2-5-4 @ #1 TDC: Exh. 1-3-7-8 Turn Crankshaft 360* #6 TDC @ #6 TDC: Int. 3-7-6-8 @ #6 TDC: Exh. 2-5-6-4
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
#30
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With the plungers adjusted to near the bottom of travel, it would take less oil to refill each lifter after it leaks-down; which may have the side-effect of reducing some noise especially on start-up when some lifters will have leaked-down overnight. Quote:
There's a market in the high-performance world for hydraulic lifters with severely-restricted travel--the plunger can be near the top of it's travel AND be near the bottom of it's travel. Can't "pump up", can't "leak down"; but then becomes extremely sensitive to valvetrain wear when the plunger travel is only a few thousandths of an inch. Quote:
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The benefit you have with new lifters is that you can set the lifter preload with the intake and valley cover REMOVED, so you can SEE the lifter preload. Make sure your pushrod length measurements take into account your intention to deep-seat the lifter plunger. You may need longer pushrods than someone who's goal is to lightly-preload the plunger. If a hydraulic lifter is noisy, and the plunger is anywhere within it's range of travel--not topped-out, not bottomed-out--the lifter should be quiet in operation. If it isn't, there's something wrong. Perhaps the lifter isn't made right for quietness (example: deliberately high-leakage lifters like Rhoads, or negligently-made lifters like Communist Crap.) Perhaps the cam lobe profile is so radical that it tends to make the valvetrain noisy. Maybe there's slop in the rocker arm pivots, or perhaps there's hidden wear somewhere that the lifter plunger can't compensate for--wiped valve guides for example. |
#31
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Thanks for taking time to answer my questions. I very much appreciate it.
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
#32
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"Bought the correct crossmember for the new trans..."
Which crossmember did you get? And what trans mount are you using? Instead of moving the rear down, why not move the trans down? You may still have to change the rear, but it would make more sense to move it down. Some trans mounts, like the poly one, can be taller, and same with the crossmember. Some engine mounts are lower, like the engine rides lower in the saddle, that too can cause issues, especially if you change them. You can end up with the same issue all over again. I just went through an engine mounts nightmare, even ones from the same manufacturer can vary, same part number. Shackles can have an effect too, longer/shorter. You mentioned Herb Adams, he suggests the 'anti-squat' mod where you raise the front spring eye. Depending on how the spring eyes are made, that too can have an impact on driveline angles. Is the rear housing original to the car? CV joints are not a fix-all, and have limitations too. And some shops just slap together stuff to sell you, even if you don't need it. The best people to talk to is The Driveshaft Shop. They also have balancing equip that far exceeds your 'regular' driveshaft shop. "we can spin a 17lb shaft to actual speeds of over 9000 RPM. Most driveshaft balancers only spin from 400-3000 RPM (most average about 1000 RPM). This machine was custom-made for us and high-speed balancing is offered as a separate service, only from The Drive Shaft Shop." https://driveshaftshop.com/ Andrew70 worked with them on a couple project I believe, and many others have had luck with them. They can also Cardan type joints as well. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#33
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On a side note, did you have to enlarge your tunnel to accommodate the 4L80e?
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#34
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Quote:
.
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#35
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"Bought the correct crossmember for the new trans..." G Force Cross members RCF2E-4L80 Cross member For 1970-1974 Camaro / Firebird Yes, it is the original rear housing. Bought the entire 4L80E, Converter, Pontiac to Chevrolet Trans Adapter, entire kit from Hughes Performance. The trans mount was supplied by them. So I don't know. Ended up shimming the tailshaft 1 5/8" with 1"+ 5/8" thick steel blocks 2" W x 4" L . Drilled for mount holes. Probably wouldn't have needed so much shimming but the cross member dropped a pretty good bit. I',m sure they did that to make sure there was plenty of room to make adjustments for customers who needed their tailshaft to drop down more than usual. Went from automatic 3-speed to automatic 4-speed (O/D) Bought the O/D shifter detent shift pattern for the console from Summit.
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
#36
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I discussed with Hughes what I needed. They were total experts. They knew exactly what I needed when I ordered the 4L80E. He told me they would remove the lower ears off the bell housing for clearance. He said other than that, I had plenty of room on my 71 bird. On another note: The 4L80E has electronically controlled shifting as well as electronic speedometer. I asked if it could be converted to mechanical speedometer. He said yes for an additional $600 (machining). I did it, didn't want to have to remove my gauges and change everything. They took all my information...rear gear ratio, tire height, etc. You asked if I had to enlarge my tunnel. The answer is No ! However, because I had to raise my tailshaft so far, it made the electrical connections as well as the speedometer cable rub the floor board in certain areas. I reluctantly massaged the affected area with a 2 lb. hammer and steel bar. Painted it and unless I show you where, you probably won't ever know.
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Ol' man Smith Pigeon Forge, Tn. Grand Rod Run Spring 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUIuGvWWthA http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...d%20Run%202012 Son video'd this... http://s223.photobucket.com/user/fas...a.mp4.html?o=0 |
The Following User Says Thank You to 1971455HO For This Useful Post: | ||
#37
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https://www.dakotadigital.com/index....rod/prd886.htm It takes the VSS signal from the trans and drives a mechanical cable. It's slightly cheaper than changing the tail housing of the transmission, but does require more wiring and another box to hide. I opted for this solution when I did my 4l80e. The drive is silent, I have it mounted under the dash and can not hear it at all. It has a bluetooth interface that allows you to set your speedometer calibration as well as other features (that you'll probably never use).
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#38
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I shaved the ears off too, here's my install thread:
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=4l80e+install I did switch to a G-Force crossmember once they were available. There's a bunch of options for going from electronic (VSS) trans to a cable speedo, replacement tailshaft, and 'Cable-X' boxes like the Brothers one: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Dakot...ip,410402.html Some just switch to a GPS speedo, just a matter of what you want. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
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