[Ragtop Man]

Guessing the starter has to come out, wires are completely inaccessible by any other means. Putting hard light down by the manifold shows the + cable is half burnt through, there's no good hillbilly fix for this one.

Battery is out of the car, positive cable still intact, wire guide tube is loose... now just cuss the damn thing out?

Procedure looks like getting the nose brace out first, then undoing the starter bolts and pulling up on the + cable?

Any tips on the removal are greatly appreciated.

Somewhere, the service engineer is laughing at me from Hades.

[Goatracer1]

Leave the wires connected to the starter. Put a jack under the starter and lower it down enough to remove the wire. Trying to hold it with one hand and working on it with the other hand is a waste of time.

[Kenth]

Replace the inner starter bolt with a 2 foot long 3/8" UNC threaded rod with a nut and lower the starter on it.
Safe and prevents dropping the starter on forehead.

HTH

[Andre]

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think I have changed these wires with starter in place by using a 1/4" drive with a couple of extensions and accessing from the front. I think starter was loose, but bolts were not removed. Its been a long time. long long time. I do recollect on other occasions that I used the floor jack to lower the starter down, and put it back in place. If removing with wires in place, i recollect you need to unhook them from a couple places so the harness has enough give to let the starter reach the ground.

[george kujanski]

Threaded rod idea makes sense.

George

[Longs]

Does anyone know the size of the connector on the starter end of the positive cable, the diameter of the stud and what size is needed to accommodate it? I was thinking of getting positive and negative cables made, but I don't want to select the wrong end at the starter. My cables are original, and have the "emergency" aftermarket terminals at the battery, have been that way for forty years.

[Goatracer1]

I believe it is a 3/8-16 stud.

[b-man]

Yes it’s 3/8-16.

[Longs]

Thanks for the starter stud information. I had seen some recommendations for batterycablesusa.com so I am considering ordering from them.

[Ragtop Man]

Originally Posted by Kenth

Replace the inner starter bolt with a 2 foot long 3/8" UNC threaded rod with a nut and lower the starter on it.
Safe and prevents dropping the starter on forehead.

HTH

Got the rod, are you suggesting backing the nut down to slowly lower i t and prevent it falling in my face and knocking me out cold?

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

Got the rod, are you suggesting backing the nut down to slowly lower i t and prevent it falling in my face and knocking me out cold?

I think you caught the idea.

[fyrffytr1]

Before you drop the starter get as much slack in the small wires as possible. Also, remove the transmission dust cover so the starter will drop. And watch out for any shims that may come loose. I am 74 and have used the threaded rod method several times.

[Longs]

Well as things seem to go, here I am a year later and I finally replaced the battery cables yesterday. I ordered the #2 gauge "Extreme" cables from batterycablesusa.com. I ordered the negative cable as 30" with the 90 degree bend on the connector to the block. I ordered the positive cable as 45"; both in black since the originals were black. Those lengths are "hole to hole". Looking back might I have ordered the positive cable as 48" but the 45" cable was a couple of inches longer than the cable I removed (could have been from the original positive spring clamp having been removed). They are noticeably thicker than the originals, which were stiff and likely internally corroded. They seem to be very high quality. The "insulation" on the original cable was still there but pretty degraded; no way to remove it without destroying it, and the thicker cable wouldn't have gone through the tube with it anyway. With that "extreme" cable any heavier gauge wouldn't have fit through the tube with the other two wires.

Replacing the negative cable took 5 minutes; replacing the positive cable took 5 hours. I was working with a floor jack on the garage floor, not with a creeper, slid out from under the car probably 50 times to get other tools, find tools that I put down when I was out from under the car, etc. Nothing was particularly difficult. I used the threaded rod technique, which worked well. Of course, I cut the rod at 2' then the car wasn't high enough to get it into the starter when I removed the inner bolt, so I had to cut it a second time. My car has the brace at the rear of the starter so I had to move that out of the way since I was using the threaded rod to lower the starter. There wasn't a lot of play in the wires but I was able to lower the starter enough to disconnect the wires. I ended up removing the tin shield that must be meant to keep debris from getting up around the starter, kind of a pain to reinstall.

Once I had the new positive cable attached to the solenoid I had to raise the starter, then get out from under the car, go under the hood to pull the cable up through the tube so that the connector would go the right direction and the cable wouldn't bunch up down near the starter or the block. I left the solenoid nut a little loose until the starter was "near" in position then tightened it. The threaded rod was helpful with getting the shims back into place and the outer bolt reinstalled. I verified that the engine cranked before I reinstalled the converter inspection cover and took the car off the jack stands, because that IS my luck; I'd put it all back together, then something would be wrong, and I'd be back under there.

I was having some slow hot crank issues with the original cables, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to change them. The test now will be to see how the car cranks when it's hot, but I assume these new cables should be much better than the originals, which I assume there's no reason to keep.

[60sstuff]

Yup, the starter R&R is a bitch.

This information is probably to late for you, but others my benefit from it when they work on their starters.

I’ve done this procedure many times and one important item is clearance.
I have always used an 1/8’’ drill bit for my gauge purpose.

Here are illustrations to use.

Good luck.

[Longs]

Originally Posted by 60sstuff

Yup, the starter R&R is a bitch.

This information is probably to late for you, but others my benefit from it when they work on their starters.

I’ve done this procedure many times and one important item is clearance.
I have always used an 1/8’’ drill bit for my gauge purpose.

Here are illustrations to use.

Good luck.

Good information, thanks for sharing! In my case, the starter and shims were already good so I just put it all back together the way it came out. Yes it's definitely a bitch. The bracket at the rear of the starter is more of an issue when using the threaded rod, probably wouldn't need to move it if you're just catching the starter with a jack or a block of wood or whatever. That would also probably provide more slack to remove the wires from the solenoid. But then again, the threaded rod does help get the starter back into position to install the shims and bolts.

I had the starter out probably close to 40 years ago, I'm hoping that with these new cables that I'll never drop it again... and I probably jinxed myself by saying that.

[rockdoc]

Longs, thanks for a nice summary. I've done this on my '67 for the same reason. Sounds like you need a QuickJack. When I purchased a set a few years ago, I cursed myself for not buying a set years ago. They make most jobs much easier. Heck, they are so nice that sometimes I just lie under the car and admire it from below!

[Kenth]

For shimming an original starter i have relegated the paper clip method to the junk box as it is extremely unpredictable for a properly functioning starter motor. Instead, I use a 1/8" Allen key that is placed between the pinion gear shaft and the starter ring cogs.
The key should just go in between but not be able to turn, then the distance will be perfect every time.

HTH

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Longs

.....Yes it's definitely a bitch. The bracket at the rear of the starter is more of an issue when using the threaded rod, probably wouldn't need to move it if you're just catching the starter with a jack or a block of wood or whatever. .....

I posted about my frustration sliding an insulating sleeve along my positive cable and down through the metal tube (link to thread).

I really didn't want to pull the starter to get the sleeve done and this thread explains why... like whining only for good reason.

When looking at the starter, I noticed I never connected this bracket:



What is it for? The mating threaded screw on the starter looks too small for any real structural help and there is a nut on it, yet the bracket is stout????

I have been starting the engine without it for a couple years so do I care?

Assuming I care, what holds it onto the starter? Is it a flanged nut, nut and washer, or have I misinterpreted the entire thing?

Is there a spacer? If not, why is that threaded screw so long?

Can you share a photo of the "correct" way to attach this bracket?

Mike

[Shiny]

No idea why this worked when previewed then didn’t....

But this:

[johnta1]

Nut and washer on it.
I think they thought there was a lot of weight hanging on the rear so they put a brace on it at the rear?


Most of the time I never put that back on because it's a pain just replacing the starter!