[70 bird]

FWIW I am installing the ford retro kit in a 1974 351 Windsor now and you have to grind the dog bones for block clearance the Ford. I'm not going to worry about trimming them on a Pontiac. I have collected the parts to install a roller in my 462 but it may be a year or 2 down the road yet.

[Franked]

I got my set in the mail last night (12/2)
Thanks Stan!

[Stan65]

Here’s a little something I’ve been tinkering with. I don’t like anything about the spider. The ford piece does not seem to be spring steel. I don’t like the way you have to bend it to make it fit. I feel like it compromises the stiffness of the “ribs” stamped into it when you bend it.

Here is my solution that I will be modifying the bones to accommodate on the next batch. You will still be able to use the spider if you wish.

The original batch can easily be modified by drilling a hole if you want to update yours. I will supply any info you need to get the job done.

I am also adding more clearance in a few key areas to reduce/eliminate hand fitting on most blocks.

Here is a picture using grade 8 hardware.

Stan

[P@blo]

Looks like you are making progress Stan. Great work!

My local MS guys told me to avoid the US/Mexico made 2148 lifters. Recommended I buy the offshore Gaterman G1012 open wheel roller lifter instead. It’s a better mousetrap and they have had zero problems with them.

Comparing the lifters (older style 2148 without the notch) with the Gaterman G1012 I am glad I went with the advice even though I already bought the 2148 lifters. They are quality parts so have a look guys.

https://www.gatermanproducts.com/gm-lslt-drop-in.html

[Stan65]

P@blo,

A couple other guys suggested those. I was gonna get one to check out the fit with my bone setup, but everyone was out of stock.

Myself, I have enough USA sealed power lifters for my current builds. An alternative would definitely open up the future since the sealed power ones are in limited supply.

Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[Stan65]

All,

I just finished another run of dog bones (retainers).

This version has a little more clearance designed in that will hopefully eliminate all grinding on the bones to clear the different ribs on the different years of blocks. I also designed a different way to retain them that eliminates the need for the spider (you can still use the spider if you prefer). Which also eliminates the issue with the spider clearing the valley pan. I personally recommend not using the spider.

Anyone who bought the last version and is interested in the different way to retain them I can explain what to do and either provide you the part numbers to order yourself or buy them from me if you choose to not use the spider. If anyone’s interested in these, just send me a message. I’ve already sold about half of these. Thanks for all the support guys.

Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[67Lemons]

Dang every version keeps getting better! Looks almost fool proof now, great work!

[Green Elephant]

Originally Posted by Stan65

All,

I just finished another run of dog bones (retainers).

This version has a little more clearance designed in that will hopefully eliminate all grinding on the bones to clear the different ribs on the different years of blocks. I also designed a different way to retain them that eliminates the need for the spider (you can still use the spider if you prefer). Which also eliminates the issue with the spider clearing the valley pan. I personally recommend not using the spider.

Anyone who bought the last version and is interested in the different way to retain them I can explain what to do and either provide you the part numbers to order yourself or buy them from me if you choose to not use the spider. If anyone’s interested in these, just send me a message. I’ve already sold about half of these. Thanks for all the support guys.

Stuart “Stan” Landreth

Looking forward to trying these out Stan!

[rolling money pits]

That looks neat, clean and all, but color me skeptical.

How does one ensure that, though all the heat cycles and vibrations, one of those doesn’t work itself loose?

[Stan65]

Good question.

The bones (lifter retainers) do not move once they settle in place. The bolts have a predetermined clearance in the hole of the bone to allow the bone to find its place, but only allow the bolt to be non perpendicular by a very small margin. This stops the bolt/washer from being able to move enough to dislodge from under the lifter boss or the washer come in contact radially with the lifter. The bone is trapped by the lifters so it can’t go anywhere either.

The bolts and nuts are grade 8 and the nuts are a deformed thread design. Exactly like most of the rocker arm nuts for adjustable valve train on virtually billions of engines.

Hope this answers your question. If not I will try to explain more.

Thanks,
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[ponchjoe]

Stan,

What keeps the head of the bolt head from just slipping out with all the vibration going on? Also how much lobe clearance is there?
Thanks

[Stan65]

It can’t slip out because the limited clearances doesn’t allow the bolt to move more than a couple degrees when the bone is held in place by the lifters.

As far as clearance, The lobe can’t be taller than the cam journal. Most lobes are roughly .010” shorter than the journal. I never measured, but there is plenty of clearance. I can put my 3/8” closed end wrench on the bolt head with the lobe directly under it at full lift.

I can measure and get a picture tonight if necessary.

Here is a pic of an early mockup with just junk bolt, washer, spring etc. you can kinda compare to the love next to it.

[dataway]

Perhaps a press in sleeve to enhance control of the bolt's movement.

At least it would allow more control of the bolt without adding a crazy amount of additional machining.

But, more parts, more labor, more complexity for something that may not be necessary at all.

I'm sure you don't need my 2 cents, you are doing outstanding work on this project.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Probably fine as-is.

Yet suggest a Double-nut for jam-nut assurance for those highway drivers and those that want to sleep better.

[Stan65]

Dataway.

Solidworks or Fusion?

The tube would give more rigidity, but I wanted some compliance as the castings aren’t very accurate and the bolt needs to have some wiggle room to allow the bone to sit flat.

It would work by moving the hole over a bit for the additional clearance needed, but I was trying to stay as close to center as possible to keep it from possibly cocking.

Right now after my costs I make a whopping $10 a set and that doesn’t include my time answering questions, running to the post office and gas. I’m doing it to keep the Pontiacs alive!. I would have to significantly raise price and I don’t know if anyone would pay. Actually surprised at the amount that has sold so far.

I started with a .250 hole and when I tightened it down it would bind. Went to F (.257) and it is perfect. 17/64 (.2656) gave a little more than I felt comfortable using the bolts I supply with a .245 shank diameter.

Half-Inch Stud

I was going to use 2-3/4” long bolts as it looks more aesthetically pleasing. I haven’t shipped any with that length and I have enough 3 inch on hand so I will be including these for everyone along with eight extra regular nuts to jam it. I do agree, probably not necessary, but it absolutely will not hurt anything and I will probably do it to mine also.

Thanks everyone, keep the inputs coming. I may play around with the tube idea, and it could potentially be an added cost option in the future just requires the hole to be drilled larger, tubing cut, and pressed in.

Hard to believe with only two sets left for sale.

Thanks
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[Scarebird]

Another option in lieu of the tube is to have a laser cut 3/16" dogbone on the underside of the lifter bore. This would have a flathead bolt inserted and welded perpendicular - it would go up as the original does.

This underdogbone could be the shape of a guitar pick or a bell, with the bolt at the apex.

All it has to do is not slide out.

[Stan65]

Scarebird,

Yes many ways to skin this cat. I was just using simple store bought components. This keeps the labor and costs down for me.

It just has to keep the bone in place. In my opinion it’s 1000% better than bending around on a ford spider to make it fit, modifying the valley pan, and crossing your fingers it all stays in place under the cover when you put it on.

Stan

[Scarebird]

true - though the issue with the bolt head is it is perceived it can come loose whereas in reality that is highly unlikely.

[dataway]

Stan, Solidworks.

And ... you are exactly right, some amount of compliance would certainly be in order against a cast surface.

Certainly is kind of a mechanical optical illusion, but it appears it would have to bend the bolt, or break the dog bone, for that washer to slip off the edge of the block. Good simple design.

PS. You know, on second look, that looks really robust, not going anywhere as long as that nut stays in place.

[Stan65]

Dataway,

I agree with the nut issue. It would probably never have an issue, but I am supplying a bolt long enough to double nut it. That should be the final fix in these things.

Stuart “Stan” Landreth.

Oh and by the way, down to the last set unless I sell my 2 personal sets again.