[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Hour in.
That is sure a lot of jacking around to get that gear drive to work.
Other build. You would think someone would know about Scorps and their cracking issues. The stud girdle is a cheap PRW deal. No one told anyone the High Ports have valves that have been moved ? The customer should know that you would think . I have a extra High Port stud girdle laying around after I went with Crower shafts. He could probably get some extra thick valve cover gaskets from BOP and make those billet valve covers work.
KRE solid billet blocks have aluminum caps ? Is that what I heard ? Never knew.
Anyway, glad one of the best engine builders around is building Pontiac's. And he started out a Pontiac guy to boot !

Troy,
Watching the video of Steve setting up the gear drive, I said to myself it seems look the crank center line has been moved. In the comments I saw where Rich had said the block was align I don't remember if he said bored or honed.

Stan

[johnta1]

I only listened to about half of the video, but in the beginning he said that he was going to align bore it but the 2 different metals (aluminum and steel caps) required him to do some extra measuring and cutting to make it work.
Something about you can't cut the 2 metals together?

Sounded like he would cut the block separate then the caps?

[bluegoat65]

When I saw him having trouble with the bolt up of the mounting plate, that was the first thing I thought of too was the align bore he had done. But that's the beauty of the gear drive is this issue is easy fix like Steve did. Also setting cam timing is dead on. Enough with the gear drive from me. Over the winter I got into his weekly U tube videos with outside of the box builds. Generally helping people dial in their combos on the dyno. From what I gather from him, is his builds are not from manufacturer parts. He hand builds everything with his name on it. If he can t he out sources too those who hand make what he needs. I think that's why he looks at parts and looks puzzled most times. Should be dyno testing that blow thru motor this week if they got the correct girdle from Jeff. I really think those rocker studs need to be looked at closer. To short to me. I feel bad for Sweeney. He doesn t like the valve covers, lol. They are ridiculously heavy.

[JD]

Does anybody know the part number for the 55mm roller cam bearing that were used those engines in the video? Also, what rear cam plug is used when you go with the 55mm roller cam bearing?

[mysticmissle]

I can get you that info tomorrow if you dont have it by then.

[JD]

Originally Posted by mysticmissle

I can get you that info tomorrow if you dont have it by then.

That would be awesome, thanks.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I only listened to about half of the video, but in the beginning he said that he was going to align bore it but the 2 different metals (aluminum and steel caps) required him to do some extra measuring and cutting to make it work.
Something about you can't cut the 2 metals together?

Sounded like he would cut the block separate then the caps?

On the cast block with billet steel caps he spoke about align boring a aluminum block with steel caps being hard to machine, but doable.
The billet block he said that it had aluminum caps and he had them hard anodized.
Seems weird. A basic aluminum block gets the Program steel caps but the full all out race solid block gets aluminum caps ?
I spoke to Jeff years ago and he said he was getting a little cap fretting at 2500 HP. Hard to imagine not getting a little of that a 2500 HP and our style of caps.
The LS engines, while I can't stand them did the mains right.

[mysticmissle]

Originally Posted by JD

That would be awesome, thanks.

Looks like
I struck out twice no part number on my bill for the bearings looking around comp cams Crower et all have offerings probably all rebranded
And there is no let
Number on my rear plug I did measure and the hole in the block is 2.490" hope it helps

[JD]

Originally Posted by mysticmissle

Looks like
I struck out twice no part number on my bill for the bearings looking around comp cams Crower et all have offerings probably all rebranded
And there is no let
Number on my rear plug I did measure and the hole in the block is 2.490" hope it helps

Thanks for trying, I appreciate it.

[KEN CROCIE]

I found that video boring. Tons of aluminum billet CNC, machined to create custom parts, none of which any of us will ever use, topped off with billet aluminum CNC machined one-off pair of Canted Valve heads.
Brings back the old argument (started when aftermarket Al. heads became available) "when should a Pontiac cease to be called a Pontiac"

[Nobuddy]

Nothing new really. Were the Mickey Thompson hemi engines still "Pontiac".

[RA462]

I remember reading the Milodon instruction on the gear drive I have. You are supposed to use "news paper" to set the clearance on the gears and not the paper the instructions are printed on. He must have not wanted to take the time and go buy a paper. I removed the gear drive after discovering the two bolts that he had to drill and tap loosed up after dyno testing the engine. Most likely my fault as I didn't use Loctite as I was supposed to. I put in a Sims roller. Someday I might go back to the gear drive.

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

I found that video boring. Tons of aluminum billet CNC, machined to create custom parts, none of which any of us will ever use, topped off with billet aluminum CNC machined one-off pair of Canted Valve heads.
Brings back the old argument (started when aftermarket Al. heads became available) "when should a Pontiac cease to be called a Pontiac"

Why would none of us ever use any of the billet parts? Some of us want to go fast, and are willing to do what it takes to do so...Pontiacs are no different than any other engine...I had a friend with a 410 inch small block ford engine that he put Hemi heads on...We all knew it was still a small block ford.

[Elarson]

I know it's been beat to death but I'll weigh-in on what makes it Pontiac.

I think it's a preponderance of original architecture.....not necessarily 100% compliance. In the case of the Boss Bird nitro engine, there were zero factory parts, but here's what we considered faithful ties to the Pontiac origins:

stock bore spacing
10 head bolts in stock locations
stock main bearing size/location
stock deck height
stock cam location
stock timing cover interface
stock oil pan rail
wedge heads with RA5 valve layout
stock valve cover rail

And we shattered the ceiling on how much power & violence a Pontiac was thought to be capable of. So that's useful inspiration to everyone building a mild-to-moderate combo.


FWIW,
Eric

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

I found that video boring. Tons of aluminum billet CNC, machined to create custom parts, none of which any of us will ever use, topped off with billet aluminum CNC machined one-off pair of Canted Valve heads.
Brings back the old argument (started when aftermarket Al. heads became available) "when should a Pontiac cease to be called a Pontiac"

There was a High Port engine in that video too. LOTS of us have those with some better parts that were in that build.
Warp heads are not my thing but are not one off either.
I would have liked to see a those builds with heads ported by Morris. That might have been interesting.
Now PMD did play around with the idea of a SOHC Hemi head and it would have had canted valves.
Make that head but maybe with 2 cams per head all on our bore spacing and you would have a head no one could argue that its not a Pontiac !

[grnmnstr]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

I found that video boring. Tons of aluminum billet CNC, machined to create custom parts, none of which any of us will ever use, topped off with billet aluminum CNC machined one-off pair of Canted Valve heads.
Brings back the old argument (started when aftermarket Al. heads became available) "when should a Pontiac cease to be called a Pontiac"

Technology marches on. Steve Morris seems to be very knowledgeable. He makes big power. He must be doing something right. And the fact that he is taking on a few Pontiacs says he is ok in my book.

[grnmnstr]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

I found that video boring. Tons of aluminum billet CNC, machined to create custom parts, none of which any of us will ever use, topped off with billet aluminum CNC machined one-off pair of Canted Valve heads.
Brings back the old argument (started when aftermarket Al. heads became available) "when should a Pontiac cease to be called a Pontiac"

Originally Posted by RA462

I remember reading the Milodon instruction on the gear drive I have. You are supposed to use "news paper" to set the clearance on the gears and not the paper the instructions are printed on. He must have not wanted to take the time and go buy a paper. I removed the gear drive after discovering the two bolts that he had to drill and tap loosed up after dyno testing the engine. Most likely my fault as I didn't use Loctite as I was supposed to. I put in a Sims roller. Someday I might go back to the gear drive.

One of my older motors, we installed a gear drive.
When we tore it down, I remember one or both of the bolts that hold the plate on sheared off. Not sure what stock size bolt was, but we did go up in size.

[KEN CROCIE]

I agree with ELARSON, Once you put a pair of canted calve heads on a Pontiac 'looks similar ' block, in my opinion, it's a rat Chevy in a Pontiac costume

[Elarson]

Just to clarify, we felt pretty strongly about sticking with the RA5 wedge head design for the Boss Bird. But me personally, I'm ok with canted valve heads as long as most of the other factory architecture is retained. Same with the comment made earlier about M/T hemi heads for a true Pontiac. The whole "is it still a Pontiac" is a huge gray zone and I respect others for sticking to their own interpretations.

Eric

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

I agree with ELARSON, Once you put a pair of canted calve heads on a Pontiac 'looks similar ' block, in my opinion, it's a rat Chevy in a Pontiac costume

That line of thinking is exactly why Pontiac was held back for so many decades...There were never enough people willing to think outside of the box so the aftermarket world could get on board...

Chevy people didnt care about silly stuff, and they got all sorts of things that kept them evolving...Factory 4.84 bore space was traded for up to 5.3 bore space...Head designs all over the map...If factory parts didnt bolt on, they made new stuff that did, and people bought tons of it...

This conversation has been beat to death, with zero results...I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s, people were so adamant about original parts, it drove the demand for round ports to the point that new people never gave Pontiacs a second look, and bought the other brands...That also kept the demand for fast parts to such a minimum that they had to be special runs that werent cost effective for anyone...Thankfully there are some people that no longer care about any of that, and the parts are slowly coming...Tommy Youman's GTO is PONTIAC powered, no matter what some say...Same with Richard's 63...