[thews]

Originally Posted by johnta1

You're correct.



I didn't notice it. Just saw that it had a 455 in it.
When I saw the BHC, I knew it was a RA II. Then read it again (guess not well) with the 455 being built and Aluminum heads and didn't see it mentioned until the end.

How much does being an original RA II affect the bottom line in asking $$$ if it doesn't have the original engine?

[johnta1]

I don't know. That would be for the guys who want them.
But they are so rare and hard to find an original car, it would possibly be worth quite a bit just for the documented car.

[Mcronk]

The way I look at it is you would need to calculate all the work and parts needed to make the car whole again. Then subtract that from the market value of a complete and correct car. That would be what I would pay. I do recall a thread about a RAII GTO that sold on ebay years ago but was missing original engine. I have been sourcing parts for my RA II car for a few years now. With only 246 RA II GTOs built the parts are rare. However they are out there but expect to pay a lot!

Mark

[DANTIP]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

The way I look at it is you would need to calculate all the work and parts needed to make the car whole again. Then subtract that from the market value of a complete and correct car. That would be what I would pay. I do recall a thread about a RAII GTO that sold on ebay years ago but was missing original engine. I have been sourcing parts for my RA II car for a few years now. With only 246 RA II GTOs built the parts are rare. However they are out there but expect to pay a lot!

Mark

I'm sitting on a RAII as cast 2506 SR block engine waiting for a real car without the original engine. As mentioned above, this one is really too far away from stock for it to make sense.

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by DANTIP

I'm sitting on a RAII as cast 2506 SR block engine waiting for a real car without the original engine. As mentioned above, this one is really too far away from stock for it to make sense.

So the block does not have a two letter code? At Norwalk in 2023 I saw a 2506 block with a C118 date code but the area where the two letter code was acid washed. Back in the day NHRA stock racers would "cheat" and do stuff like that. This could have been a Bird or GTO block.

When you consider how few of these cars were produced, then factor in they had no visible badging or decals to alert you to what they were, many are now gone forever (crushed/trashed/etc). Finding a car with the proper tags (VIN and Data plate) is very difficult. Only 246 GTOs built and far fewer Birds. Chances of finding a car that is a legitimate RA II is almost impossible. Possibly the best chance is someone else who is sitting on a car that is missing its engine may be willing to sell. But it won't be as cheap as the car listed. You could sell off the parts you don't want. M21 4 speeds are not that hard to find. The ZL axle is a tough one. Heads come up for sale regularly, intakes are not any different that standard 4bbl. The carb and distributor are big ticket items. Exhaust manifolds are extremely rare. Most restored RA II cars are wearing reproduction RAIV manifolds. I was able to find a set of original RA II exhaust manifolds and the are very different.

[wovenweb]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

The way I look at it is you would need to calculate all the work and parts needed to make the car whole again. Then subtract that from the market value of a complete and correct car. That would be what I would pay. I do recall a thread about a RAII GTO that sold on ebay years ago but was missing original engine. I have been sourcing parts for my RA II car for a few years now. With only 246 RA II GTOs built the parts are rare. However they are out there but expect to pay a lot!

Mark

Originally Posted by DANTIP

I'm sitting on a RAII as cast 2506 SR block engine waiting for a real car without the original engine. As mentioned above, this one is really too far away from stock for it to make sense.

Originally Posted by Mcronk

So the block does not have a two letter code? At Norwalk in 2023 I saw a 2506 block with a C118 date code but the area where the two letter code was acid washed. Back in the day NHRA stock racers would "cheat" and do stuff like that. This could have been a Bird or GTO block.

When you consider how few of these cars were produced, then factor in they had no visible badging or decals to alert you to what they were, many are now gone forever (crushed/trashed/etc). Finding a car with the proper tags (VIN and Data plate) is very difficult. Only 246 GTOs built and far fewer Birds. Chances of finding a car that is a legitimate RA II is almost impossible. Possibly the best chance is someone else who is sitting on a car that is missing its engine may be willing to sell. But it won't be as cheap as the car listed. You could sell off the parts you don't want. M21 4 speeds are not that hard to find. The ZL axle is a tough one. Heads come up for sale regularly, intakes are not any different that standard 4bbl. The carb and distributor are big ticket items. Exhaust manifolds are extremely rare. Most restored RA II cars are wearing reproduction RAIV manifolds. I was able to find a set of original RA II exhaust manifolds and the are very different.

I think this car is stuck in no man’s land. Seller will want a premium for it being a RA II car, but it is so far away from it right now that paying too much for it(unless cost isn’t an issue for the buyer which may be the case) ruins the economics.

I do have a set of SR RA II heads sitting on my coupe. Would pair nicely with that block.

[north]

This car reminds me of a car I looked at about 20 years ago. It was a burgundy (or whatever it was called in 68) GTO hardtop with a non HO 71 455 (from a GTO). It had a black interior, original m21, and original coded 4.33 STT. Other options included hideaways, manual discs and manual steering, factory looking RII’s, console annd AM radio as well as dash tach and gauges with a wood wheel. It was mostly original paint in presentable condition with some touch ups indicating very minor body work behind each wheel. Clearly not winter driven. I studied it carefully and I’m pretty sure it was a RAII car. The hood plate and air cleaner was missing but the original paint hood was clearly a RA car with the factory cutouts ion the bracing. It also had an untouched looking set of round port manifolds (I didn’t know at that time how to ID the difference between RAII, IV or HO). Trim tag was home plant June 68.

Couldn't make a deal with the seller (he was a “non-yard” scrap yard guy selling used later model engines, body parts etc out of a warehouse. He didn’t No, the history of the car. If I recall correctly, he had bought it when he was there buying a scrap car from the same owner.

no, the history of the car. If I recall correctly, he had bought it when he was there buying a scrap car from the same owner. This all happened in the early 2000s and the car was right across the border from Vermont in Canada

[wovenweb]

Someone finally outbid me.

[wovenweb]

High bid of $41,250.

[RA1John]

For the past 30+ years, I've been researching the '67-'69 Firebirds to better understand the factory details (process, parts, finishes, variations, etc.).
My original motivation was driven by a '68 Firebird RA conv. that my father found around 1990 (Nov. '67 build, Starlight Black, original drivetrain, 4-spd, 28 options, Broadcast Copy) that had been in storage since 1980.
(currently in re-assembly phase).

Back in the 90s, I worked with other 'Bird enthusiasts on a few projects including de-coding the Broadcast sheet, 'Bird' Glass, production changes, and particularly, building a Registry.
Realizing the inflow of information was more than I could manage alone, I concentrated on '68 only, including a separate Registry for the factory Ram Air cars.
Over the years, I've tried to fill in the blanks for known, surviving '68 RA Firebirds, as well as confirm details for rumored RA cars.
While there have been a few who've been a tremendous help, unfortunately some owners are reluctant to share info.

I am reaching out to see if there are other Firebird, Ram Air enthusiasts who would be interested in reviewing this Registry and assisting with verifying/adding/correcting some of the details for known cars.
Too often I've shared this with some who have assured me they would provide helpful info, only to hear nothing. I'm all for sharing knowledge, but it should work both ways.

If you own a '68 Firebird RA car, or if you have information for RA cars you either once owned or know of, and are willing to share this info, please reach out to me and I'll share the latest version of the Registry.

Thanks very much.

ramairjohn -AT- gmail.com

[grandam1979]

How many of the 12 auto Firebirds are known to exist?

[BirdBrain]

Only two auto’s known. Both white. Both column shift.

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by BirdBrain

Only two auto’s known. Both white. Both column shift.

You forgot about the red automatic with a white standard interior

[grandam1979]

Well now I’m really confused after I posted this question I contacted PHS they said 10 of 12 are accounted for?

[BirdBrain]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

Well now I’m really confused after I posted this question I contacted PHS they said 10 of 12 are accounted for?

Jim would know. I only know of the white ones and now the red car, Telly mentioned.

grandam1979- Do you own one?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

Well now I’m really confused after I posted this question I contacted PHS they said 10 of 12 are accounted for?

It's very possible that some of those might have just been blocks/engines that were processed by PHS.


I rolled back a page or two , and didn't see any mention of when BLKBRD's 68 RamOne 4spd Bird was sold at Mecum,
about a year or so ago.
Black car with a lot of good equipment.
He passed away untimely and his brother sold his Bird and his Judge after his passing.
They were both pretty nice cars.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The 1 family owned father/son Ram2 4spd California special paint Windward Blue car ...
That guy did end up selling that car after all.
It's been Level One restored and is in Washington State now.

I think it was at MCACN a while back.

Same fellow also owns the former M_C special paint Ralley Green car.
I don't know if it has been restored yet.
If not , it will be.

,................................

Also at one time it was previously reported that Rick M. in Penn owned the Triple Black 4spd Convertible Deuce.
That was misinformation.
Someone in Washington State owns it , but not the same individual that owns the 2 Spec Paint (Non-Black) cars mentioned above.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by BirdBrain

Jim would know. I only know of the white ones and now the red car, Telly mentioned.

I remember you had the 8-Ball Black car for a while ... what color was the other one ?
CRS is chasing me faster than I can run anymore.

[Mcronk]

The RA car owned by Blackbird did sell at Mecum and is still in Florida (see pic). I was friends with Blackbird and his brother. The person who bought that car spoke with me at length about the car and we keep in touch. Blackbirds brother recently sold the last car from his collection at BJ, a RA IV 69 GTO 4 speed.

There were two RA II Firebirds at MCACN a couple of years ago, same owner (see pics). There is also a Mayfair Maize car in Florida that is currently being restored by a friend of mine (see pic). I also know of another RA II Firebird currently being restored. I believe all these cars are 4 speeds.

There was also a RA Firebird at Norwalk last year (white with red interior) that was fully restored (see pic).

[Mcronk]

At Mecum this year were two RA Firebirds. One was a 19k mile convertible 4 speed and the other was a RA automatic.