[65madgoat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQmfLtyMCFw

[gtorich]

65madqoat................thanks for the vid , but thats the rear main i have in the car now, was hoping someone could tell from my last two vids if that looks like the culprit.

Rich

[HWYSTR455]

I can't tell if where you have the pic touching is on the cap or on the crank.


.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I can't tell if where you have the pic touching is on the cap or on the crank.


.

Mike you telling me i take bad pics, lol

The smoke comes out right where the pic is touching the crank, this is getting on my nerves big time , did the vids come out for you ok

Rich

[mgarblik]

From the video, it looks like the smoke is coming from around the crankshaft, meaning a rear crank seal leak. Could you quickly review the history from day 1 with this crank and seal. what crankshaft, and what seals have been tried? First try, second try, 3rd try etc. Trying to review the history and why your having so much trouble. Thanks.

[gtorich]

Thanks Mike, first try no idea, had that done in 2007, assuming whatever was in a fel pro kit...........2nd try was with a best gasket rope deal, 3rd try was the bop 1 piece, cant find any work on what was or not done to the crank, im gonna take the oil pan off today and the main cap to see whatever i see.

Thanks again for everyones help, this kid needs it

Rich

[HWYSTR455]

Yeah that's what I was going to say too, if the pointer is on the crank, it's a crank/cap seal issue.

And as pointed out before, many overlook the sealant on the cap ends.

Close inspection of the dowels and cap are in order too.

Since it's a 3.25 main block, check to see if the anti-rotation holes were properly prepared if using a viton seal.


.

[Verdoro 68]

I was going to ask why you haven't taken the pan off yet. It's either the pan or the main, so one or both will have to come off. If I could get mine to seal, you can too!

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Yeah that's what I was going to say too, if the pointer is on the crank, it's a crank/cap seal issue.

And as pointed out before, many overlook the sealant on the cap ends.

Close inspection of the dowels and cap are in order too.

Since it's a 3.25 main block, check to see if the anti-rotation holes were properly prepared if using a viton seal.


.

Often overlooked. On the 3.25" cranks the anti-rotation slots in the block MUST be filled in.

I agree with others, at this point take the pan off and the rear main cap. Everything needs to be inspected.

Here's a great video from John (VVGarage) that is prudent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXn89UXAWjQ

He goes over every aspect needed to install these correctly.

[Verdoro 68]

I watched that video a couple weeks ago. It's one of the best I've seen on the seal install.

[grivera]

Good video - though didn't see him put RTV in the seal's parting line - is it supposed to go there?

[JLMounce]

I just looked at the instruction PDF and there's nothing about adding rtv to the parting line. Since you cut at a location of the seal that has no steel insert, theoretically, the compression of the main cap, should seal it on itself. You would also risk getting RTV on the rotational surface of the crank journal, and you may risk spinning the seal if there's a strong enough bond of the RTV to that journal. That's just how I'm thinking about it though. I didn't design it, so I could be way off base.

[grivera]

Interesting- the two piece I installed in 2013 required it - maybe the one piece design deems it unnecessary.

[gtorich]

Ok, got the oil pan off today and the main cap, thought you were only supposed to put some oil on that one piece, i had to go caveman on it, just yanked the whole thing out. Sending pics so you get a better idea on what i got going on here . Hopefully they are in order. If not, one pic has rtv all over the oil pick up screen....thought on the dip stick pic rtv was holding that in place, i could move that wherever.

One pic on the serations, which you could barely feel, the bearing was showing copper already, you might need to enlarge to see that better, this is with about maybe 2 thou miles, when i took the motor to the shop those bearings looked really bad also, i asked about this, i get " its a pontiac thing, they always go bad"

So you can see the seal is out, but i did have alot of rtv all inside the main cap.............looks like the anti-rotational holes were filled, hard to tell filled with what, so much rtv also in there.

Not sure what direction to go now...........losing all faith in this 455, i had it in the shop for a re-ring and this is what comes out. Hate to do it but thinking of just starting over from scratch and getting a different motor.idk..............anything glaring to you guys right off the bat............i havent looked at the other bearings i assume they will look as bad as the main though.

Once again, cant thank you guys enough for the help

Rich

[HWYSTR455]

That crank journal looks like it got hot, most likely from insufficient clearance. Would have to see the rest to determine the cause.

Possible causes: Line bore out of whack, crank out of whack, incorrect bearings, installation error, just to name a few.

That bearing shell that came out of the cap looks like they scuffed up the backing, and that it was insufficient clearance to begin with. Looks like the radius fillet was too wide and/or was into the bearing surface for whatever reason.

Well, first off, don't go back to that shop! Heheh! 'Pontiac bearings' don't always go bad!

Can you read the numbers on the back of the bearing?

Are you comfortable assembling an engine?

Machine work on the existing parts would be close or more than a rotating assembly, so it's easier to just buy a rotating assembly. You can send them a block for machine work, either you or them could assemble it.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1459544

https://butlerperformance.com/i-3164...tegory:1459702

https://butlerperformance.com/i-3164...tegory:1459654

Depending where you're located, you might have a reputable builder in your area, which would be another option, would save on shipping. Someone here should be able to suggest a place close(r) to you.

Kind of a bummer, but sadly, it happens all the time.


.

[Formulajones]

I don't care for serrations that defined when using the aftermarket seals. Typically that area is so polished on an original crank that has gone 200,000 miles with a rope seal it's not a huge concern, but your serrations still appear pretty defined I always have that area polished when needed if the plan is a modern seal

The rest of it I don't know without seeing in person but my first impression is you have some other issues going on as well.

[unruhjonny]

Sorry to state the obvious here but ;

Originally Posted by gtorich

…when i took the motor to the shop those bearings looked really bad also, i asked about this, i get " its a pontiac thing, they always go bad"

…

That’s a HUGE red flag right there;
To me, this is a bad shop.

[PAUL K]

Wow that's a disappointment! That dipstick tube extension looks like the style that's held in place by the windage tray.... I think instead of "knocking Pontiacs" they should've thanked you for not buying their warranty with a Dyno session. Although I'm sure their "warranty" wouldn't of covered a darn thing. They seem good at making up excuses why it wasn't their fault.

[78w72]

Im late to the updates on this but what I would have suggested when removing the pan is to inspect things 1 step at a time before pulling the main cap & rms... when you first pulled the pan off that would have be the perfect time to look around the rear pan seal to see if any oil was in that area or how it was sealed up. Did you happen to notice that when the pan first came off?

As for what to do with the motor, I dont think doing some basic machining like honing for new rings & checking line bore etc with new bearings and rms would cost anywhere near a whole new rotating assembly at $2800 + shipping/tax, that would then require the same machine work & cleaning of the block or a new block. Your engine runs or ran great beside the leak... if it were me I wouldnt abandon that block over a leak that can be fixed by a shop that knows what they are doing or has done lots of pontiacs. There should be other good shops in your area or within a couple hours drive time. Just dont want to see you open a can of worms to get a new block & start from scratch or buy a new rotating assembly when your parts/block are or should be perfectly fine to use.

Hope you get this figured out

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 78w72

. if it were me I wouldnt abandon that block over a leak that can be fixed by a shop that knows what they are doing or has done lots of pontiacs. There should be other good shops in your area or within a couple hours drive time.

Hope you get this figured out

I agree but I believe this is his fifth go around with the RMS. Obviously something is going on with the seal cavity in this particular block. I'm sure the issue can be addressed. I'm not sure a sixth shop would necessarily be better than the first five