[Hammertime]

Looking for advice on what manufacturers have the better parts. Centerlink, idler, Pittman arm. I have a 73 Trans Am that needs the rusty parts replaced and the rubber components need replacing as well. Ames has a front end rebuild kit and I see one made by Kanter. I will be using the car for street driving. Thank you.

[VCho455]

Personally I avoid buying kits there always seems to be some parts that selected to make a certain price point to go along with the better advertised parts. I purchase MOOG components over all others if possible. Do your research when it comes to center links as some aftermarket ones are poor fitting or don't last. Go OE if possible.
Just my opinion which along with a sawbuck will get you a steaming hot cup of Joe just about anywhere. 🙂

[Hammertime]

Thanks for the reply. I have read Proforged seems to be good and the Ames kit says kit assembled mostly Moog Chassis parts so there’s that. This is my first attempt at this and all the rubbers components are shot. The steel suspension parts are rusty but may clean up. Wondering if you can replace the bushings, stops, any of the rubber pieces and reuse the idler, Pittman, and centerlink. Control arms need rebuilding and sandblasting. Advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[JLMounce]

The Moog components have slid in quality over the recent years. Not all but some of it is manufactured in China currently and it's hard to tell which components before you get them.

The ProForged units seem to be of more consistent quality. They are not US made, but instead manufactured in Taiwan.

The centerlink is hard to rebuild without specialized tools. I would probably shy away from trying to re-use it unless you absolutely know the ball joints in it are still in good condition. One thing to remember here is that if you've got a steering system that is badly worn currently, even the new "inferior" parts are going to be an improvement. The only steering component you really hear about failure with is the cheap Chinese ball joints that are supplied with many of the "ebay" aftermarket control arms.

I've never read or heard of a component failure of the steering system itself. So that may give you some piece of mind. I think the Ames kit is probably pretty good and I'd feel comfortable with it myself.

[propuckstopper]

Originally Posted by Hammertime

Thanks for the reply. I have read Proforged seems to be good and the Ames kit says kit assembled mostly Moog Chassis parts so there’s that. This is my first attempt at this and all the rubbers components are shot. The steel suspension parts are rusty but may clean up. Wondering if you can replace the bushings, stops, any of the rubber pieces and reuse the idler, Pittman, and centerlink. Control arms need rebuilding and sandblasting. Advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I am just re-doing this exact project on my 1968 GTO, which was last done about 1990.

Control arms were media blasted and epoxy primed followed by chassis black paint. New control arm bushings from Moog. I cleaned up the spindle real nice and painted cast iron gray. New ball joints came from Proforged, and I bought the 1/2 taller upper ball joints for supposed better control arm geometry. This car is completely restored to factor specs, but I thought I would "cheat" on the ball joints just to see what they were like.

Also, because the car has not had new springs and shocks since 1990, I ordered exact reproduction springs from Coil Spring Specialties in Kansas. I paired these coil springs with Bilstein shocks, which came painted in an ugly yellow color. I painted the Bilstein shocks GM Shock Gray and they look great now and much more subtle than the Bilstein Screaming Yellow.

The best thing about this project is that I am doing it with my 12 and 17 year old sons. They are not "car crazy" quite like me, but they are doing an excellent job of paying attention and helping where needed. I am a super hands-on guy when I work on something (I sort of "take over"), so I have had to be very cognizant to let them get their hands dirty as well.

Hope this helps.

[65 Lamnas]

If it were me in your shoes, I'd start searching for vintage Moog parts like on E-Rape, etc. Look for the old stuff, you can tell by the boxes. That stuff is as good as or better than OEM. Ball joints, steering components should all still be good, but you might want to avoid the vintage stuff when it comes to control arm bushings.

[Hammertime]

Would rebuilding the control arms with Del alum bushing kit and doing the steering linkage with the Proforged be a wise move? The Proforged has the centerlink in their kit but no ball joints.

[Hammertime]

Thank you for the help everyone, I’m formulating a plan based on the advice. The engine is at the shop and I want to get the front end cleaned up and reliable before the engine is back.

[AG]

I have used Proforged in several vehicles and have been happy with the quality.

[Goatracer1]

If your original parts are just rusty and not worn out clean them but DON'T replace them. They are likely to out last the replacements.

[Hammertime]

I will remove everything and then clean them and have a shop look at them as well. I am no mechanic but will be learning. Everything that I remove from the car that’s questionable I save in case I sell the car the next owner can decide what they want to do with them.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

The Moog components have slid in quality over the recent years. Not all but some of it is manufactured in China currently and it's hard to tell which components before you get them.

Have to agree on Moog quality.

I replaced many front end components with ACDelco parts. They are still available for most applications (I'm retired now, but was a territory manager for an ACDelco warehouse distributor and had a "Pontiac" guy in the warehouse that loved to find OE parts for me).

[Skip Fix]

AC Delco and Raybestos Pro are made in Taiwan at least the Second Gen Camaro/Firebird second gen steering parts I bought a few years ago. Both had the same bar code sticker on them!

[Hammertime]

So if my suspension parts clean up and are not damaged what type of rubber should I be using? Are there different options? All of the rubber pieces are cracked and dried out. Thank you everyone who chimed in so far.

[scott70]

I rebuilt most of the front end of my 70 GTO last winter. Pro forged ball joints, sandblasted and repainted control arms etc.. I use the energy, suspensions, urethane, black bushings.. I really didn’t know how it was going to work out because some people say it’s stiff or squeaky, but I’ve been driving around this summer and it feels all normal to me. No squeaks and no harshness and the car handles great. Afterwards got a new front iend alignment with 3.5 positive castor. And a little bit of negative camber.

[JLMounce]

Only my opinion of course, but I basically never recommend poly urethane bushings in suspension components for a couple of reasons.

1. They can squeak (not always, but it is possible and there's a lot of evidence around this)
2. The material is used to make bouncy balls. You don't actually want your suspension reacting in this way

In my eyes there are two products to use. If you are very concerned with NVH first and handling second, you choose a quality rubber bushing like the factory would have used. If you are less concerned about NVH, go straight to a delrin bushing.

The allure of the poly stuff is that it's cheap and is a "middle ground" between the two, but honestly it just sucks in both categories comparatively. First, the reason those bushings are cheap is because at scale, the cost of poly urethane is nearly free. That is the MAIN reason why companies use it, bottom line. Secondly, the poly bushing does have a tendency to transmit more road feel through the suspension than a rubber bushing will, but doesn't do nearly as good of a job with deflection as a delrin bushing does, so it's just kind of a compromise everywhere.

In regards to NVH, it's been my experience that quality delrin bushing sets either found in good quality aftermarket control arms, or as part of a good rebuild set for the factory arms have enough of the delrin material that transfer of NVH is minimal to non-existant. It's when you get mostly a bushing sleeve with a very tiny delrin bushing where you start to see issues. Most of the people that comment in regards to NVH with solid bushings typically haven't ever driven a car with solids, or they purchased the cheapest set of ebay arms possible with terrible bushings in them and use that as a reason to blanket the statement that they are harsh and noisy.

My car has been on solid front suspension bushings and solid body mounts for going on 10 years now. I just put leaf springs in the back that have spherical bearings instead of bushings. My car doesn't transmit a lot of the road to the driver. In fact it's annoyances are all parts in the passenger cabin, like a squeeking sail panel.

If you're thinking about rebuilding the factory arms along with your steering upgrade, I really like adding the delrin bushings. I personally would either use the Ridetech rebuild kit, or the Global West rebuild kit.

[ponchjoe]

I just replaced all steering components on my 67 with Mevotech for Rockauto, very nice stuff. I bought the center link from somewhere else but can’t recall.

[Entropy11]

I'll basically echo everything already stated above. Moog is now trash and I'll do everything I can to use any other brand available. The final straw was an idler arm on my kid's Mopar. Had to slightly lift the engine to sneak it in place, didn't want to damage the included grease zerk so made it the final step of the install. No threads in the fitting for the zerk and it was machined out to a size double what the included zerk would fit. I chose to pay a premium price for this?!?
- yes, I was stupid for not checking it first, but still...

8 identical control arm bushings for a GTO had 3 different inside diameter holes. One was so small the bolt wouldn't fit through it. Unfortunately it was the first one I installed and it nearly wrecked my install tool. Never again.

Metrix Premium is my go-to brand now. I don't have to but would gladly pay extra for it. Quality has been over the top on every occasion so far and they seem to strive to make parts that mirror OE. I'll also second Mevotech like Ponchjoe mentioned. They have even stepped up and started manufacturing parts Moog stopped production of (was it 2020 when they discontinued 200+ vintage part numbers?). Mevotech now even produces factory replacement springs that were always a pain to find in stock from Moog years ago.

[Hammertime]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Only my opinion of course, but I basically never recommend poly urethane bushings in suspension components for a couple of reasons.

1. They can squeak (not always, but it is possible and there's a lot of evidence around this)
2. The material is used to make bouncy balls. You don't actually want your suspension reacting in this way

In my eyes there are two products to use. If you are very concerned with NVH first and handling second, you choose a quality rubber bushing like the factory would have used. If you are less concerned about NVH, go straight to a delrin bushing.

The allure of the poly stuff is that it's cheap and is a "middle ground" between the two, but honestly it just sucks in both categories comparatively. First, the reason those bushings are cheap is because at scale, the cost of poly urethane is nearly free. That is the MAIN reason why companies use it, bottom line. Secondly, the poly bushing does have a tendency to transmit more road feel through the suspension than a rubber bushing will, but doesn't do nearly as good of a job with deflection as a delrin bushing does, so it's just kind of a compromise everywhere.

In regards to NVH, it's been my experience that quality delrin bushing sets either found in good quality aftermarket control arms, or as part of a good rebuild set for the factory arms have enough of the delrin material that transfer of NVH is minimal to non-existant. It's when you get mostly a bushing sleeve with a very tiny delrin bushing where you start to see issues. Most of the people that comment in regards to NVH with solid bushings typically haven't ever driven a car with solids, or they purchased the cheapest set of ebay arms possible with terrible bushings in them and use that as a reason to blanket the statement that they are harsh and noisy.

My car has been on solid front suspension bushings and solid body mounts for going on 10 years now. I just put leaf springs in the back that have spherical bearings instead of bushings. My car doesn't transmit a lot of the road to the driver. In fact it's annoyances are all parts in the passenger cabin, like a squeeking sail panel.

If you're thinking about rebuilding the factory arms along with your steering upgrade, I really like adding the delrin bushings. I personally would either use the Ridetech rebuild kit, or the Global West rebuild kit.

Thank you for the education and insight. If I’m in my car you can bet I will be listening to some great rock music and hopefully won’t be hearing any noise😂 I have been driving a 2004 Chevy express van for 21 years so I will be happy driving the Trans Am. Again, I appreciate the thoughtful response.

[Hammertime]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

I just replaced all steering components on my 67 with Mevotech for Rockauto, very nice stuff. I bought the center link from somewhere else but can’t recall.

So I just received the Moog ball joints, should I send them back? I don’t like bad surprises.