[Kenth]

Stumbled across this and can not find info on the X after date, the X in option group 1 and the O in group 5.

[johnta1]

The 'X' is for power windows I think.
The '5O' is for Decor group or chrome molding maybe?
(don't know the 'X' after date at the moment)

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by Kenth

Stumbled across this and can not find info on the X after date, the X in option group 1 and the O in group 5.

The X after date is still a mystery.
On the early 1965 with dates 08, 09 there is this X.
Keith Seymore may know as he has this on his very early ‘65.

Your Red Data plate shows 11A = first week of Nov. 1964.
216-B = Red interior with Buckets.
C-2 = Cameo Ivory with Black Top.
XO = X ? / O Mirror group ??
2BGP = 3 Speed manual transmission / Console / Back-up lamps.
3B = Rear window defogger.
5NO = GTO / Seat belt delete.

The above is my best guess with information I have.

Below is information pertaining to my Original Unrestored 11A Baltimore build ‘65.

[Kenth]

Thanks! The O in group 1 is still somewhat puzzling.

I have found in Eric White´s GTOAA guide that O in group 1 would be Two Tone Color with a chrome divider, while others (Pete McCarty?) says O in group 1 means "Mirror group" (vanity etc.)

BTW, the GTOAA guide says Y in group 1 would be power windows, while others say X are the power windows. I guess X is correct.

Found the O in group 5, it would be "Decor group" - LeMans only.
And since the GTO is an option on LeMans 1965, code N, the O after N would be legit.

[Kenth]

Thanks! I think your guess is close.
Since this GTO was sold new (export) in Sweden the X may mean Export?
AFAIK all GTO´s imported to Sweden by GM Nordiska (Motorami) got the rear window defogger and the seat belt delete option (the US belts was not approved for use in Sweden these years).

[Keith Seymore]

No new info regarding the X after the date code.

Been looking at that for about 50 years and still haven't figured it out.

Do you have the VIN for this car? I can add it to my registry.

K

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The O in Group 1 is the Trim Molding for Vinyl Top or 2tone
X is Pwr Windows

The O in Group 5 is Seat Belt Delete
W would be deluxe belts
( unrelated - Z was for Standard seat belts up until Jan 64 )

[Kenth]

Here is what i have found (so far) on the option codes on the Fisher data plate:

Group 1

D = Power top/convertible

E = tinted glass/all windows

O = mirror group (vanity, etc.)

T = power bucket seat

W = tinted glass/windshield

X = power windows

Group 2

A = foam front cushion (non-GTO)

B = floor mounted 3-speed syncho-trans

E or K = air conditioning (differs in ducting)

G = console

H = heater delete

L = 4 speed floor shift

M = auto trans 1964

P = radio, 1964-1965

R = rear seat

S = rear manual antenna

T = rear power antenna

U = 8 track tape system

V = Verbra-Phonic rear speaker

W = 2 speed auto trans 1965-1967

Y = padded dash

Z = 3 speed(M40) auto trans 1967

Group 3

B = rear window defogger

K = dome reading lamp 1964-1965

N = roof rail reading lamps

Group 4

F = outside remote mirror

Q = full size spare tire 1967

Group 5

N = GTO option 1964-1965 (PON/KC only)

O = décor group-LeMans only (seat belt delete-GTO´s)

W = retractable seat belts 1964-1965

Y = custom seat belts

Z = seat belt delete (1964 Pontiac Plant)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Kenth that old chart is flawed.
It's a cheat sheet made from Chevy codes , most work , some don't.
It's posted everywhere from Chevelle sites to GTOAA site.
John V. already debunked most of the debunkers on the list.

1 O is the belt line divider molding ,,,, 2tone/vinyl top

2 P is Back Up Lamps
Pontiac didn't code for Radio

3 P is Padded Dash (former mystery code)

5 O is Seatbelt Delete
5 W is deluxe seatbelts
5 Z is Standard seatbelts

Will post some debunks over the next few days.
Working on several other Pontiac assignments right now.
And the site is giving me a fit today.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Quick and Easy debunk of 2P

This car was sparsely optioned , so it's easy to deal with.
Non- Radio , with Back Up Lamps
Coded 2P
# Debunked radio code #

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...qgBptNyEQ&s=10

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...it=1536%2C2048

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...it=2048%2C1536

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...it=2048%2C1536

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

John V. was having trouble authenticating 3P as padded dash.
Lack of study samples.
A couple of specimens on BaT lately proving out 3P as padded dash.

Also some seatbelt specimens to debunk the mixed up 5 O and 5 Z codes

That list should be banned , and a correct list reconstructed and distributed.
BaT uses that list too , and ignore corrections.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Quick and Easy debunk of 2P
........ ]

Looks like they killed my picture linking.
They were working when first posted.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Code 2P
Radio DeBunk
Car is Non-Radio ,,,, with Back Up Lamps

[tempeonempty]

I recently submitted a 1964 GTO, Kansas City car.... PHS advised that they couldn't tell me all options because chevrolet controlled KC plant in 64, would I like to proceed? I asked well my determination (for what to do) on this car is whether it is a real tri power car or not, has a 5N, so I know it is GTO.... They elaborated yes, they can tell/know drive train but also 5N does not dictate GTO... They didn't elaborate on the reasoning...

I did proceed with them, car is a 4bbl, real GTO.... but it leaves me questioning what is the exception or an example of a 5N lemans out of KC(?)

[johnta1]

I would imagine they meant that the cowl tag does not make it a "GTO"
It is very easy to swap a GTO tag on a car and call it a 'GTO'.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I agree with John .
A swapped trim tag - or reproduction trim tag - could skewer reality on a 64-65 from KC or PMD plant.

On a pure virgin car , the 5N rule holds true though.

The option codes on KC car manifests don't all match up with PMD order sheets.
PHS doesn't have the proper glossary to decode all the options.
John V. created a proper glossary for them.

Sounds like you are passing on the car.
Hope you find the right one you are looking for.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Seatbelt Code DeBunker : Trim Tag Code 5-O

These next 2 are both Kansas City plant cars.

Quote from John V. - Kansas research :

517 is the Sales Code 414 Seat Belt Deletion option.
...the Seat Belt Deletion at an option credit of $11 for those that stubbornly refused to pay for an option they didn't want.
The Group 5 Code O on the Data Plate identifies the deletion, the Fisher Trim Code used at KC to indicate that the now standard Front Pair Seat Belts should be omitted on this Body Assembly.

Pontiac made front seatbelts part of standard equipment in Jan. 64
You won't see trim tag code 5-O before Jan 1 ( KC and PMD plants ) - it was a given.
After Jan 1 there will be one of the 3 seatbelt codes on all the KC and PMD GTOs.
5-O Delete
5-W Deluxe with Bright Buckles and open spool retractors
5-Z Standard with Plastic covered buckles - no spool retractors

Car has 517 delete code , and 5-O

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Seatbelt Delete , from Kansas
Car has 517 delete code , and 5-O

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Code 5-Z on Trim Tags
Standard Seatbelts

This PMD car has 5-Z , and does not have #414 Seatbelt Delete on PHS.
He just wanted Radio and Rear Speaker . Notice no code 2-P on trim tag (aka radio code debunk)
Standard Front Belts were built into the MSRP after Jan 1

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Another 5-Z code without #414 Seatbelt Delete on PHS
This guy just wanted Tachometer , Quick Steering , and Ride & Handling , and in a Rush .
Standard Front Belts were built into MSRP after Jan 1
I have more 5-Z examples , but this should do it.