[trishieldchief]

North and Baron
How many base 3 speed Pattern Judges do you have in your records or how many do you think were built?

[johnta1]

Here are some PHS' that I think could be pattern Judge, but the D.O.N. are whited out. Wondering if anyone may have a better pic or a build sheet even?


Thanks to North for most of these PHS also.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I can only remember 4 or 5 (Pattern 3spd cars) being shared in last 15 years.
But all my files are trapped.
John has 4 of them accounted.

Thinking have only seen about 3 or 4 regular 69 Judges with 3spd .
Maybe 10 or so in 70
2 or 3 in 71

71 might have a real breakdown on them. I'm not sure

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Here are some PHS' that I think could be pattern Judge, but the D.O.N. are whited out. Wondering if anyone may have a better pic or a build sheet even?


Thanks to North for most of these PHS also.

All 3 of those were Pattern cars.
They will lose their zone order number when rebilled after some type of usage .

The first example is cut off one line too short to see it's discount code.
The other 2 have their discount code in lower left little box above dealer name = 30

All their invoice numbers start with Z (zone)

Buildsheet would be the only way to get their original zone pattern number , if their original invoices are not in PHS files.
Multi-invoice scenario

There are more out there like that.
Can remember one from Alabama , off hand.

[pvp44]

PHS Docs

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pvp44

PHS Docs

Yours is Non-Pattern .
Trimmed some fat by not getting Deluxe Seatbelts or SoftRay Glass ALL.
They didn't use the Zone Pattern Order.
A dealer or customer selected the items.

Early built car though.
Probably 02A or 02B on the trim tag.
Would have GTO emblem over the heater controls originally , and no Judge emblem on glovebox.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

[north]

Originally Posted by trishieldchief

North and Baron
How many base 3 speed Pattern Judges do you have in your records or how many do you think were built?

Here is the breakdown of my 144 pattern invoices:
#1...3spd man no AC-0 parchment, 5 black
#2...3spd man w/AC- 0 parchment, o black
#3...4spd man no AC-25 parchment, 73 black
#4...4spd man w/AC-1 parchment, 4 black
#5...auto no AC-4 parchment, 7 black
#6...auto w/AC- 16 parchment, 8 black

Interestingly the percentage of pattern judges with a manual trans was 75.7%, non pattern Judges were 79.7% and non Judges were 41.9% so very different buying demographic between the Judge and regular GTO's.

The percentage of 3 spd manual cars was similar across all GTO and Judge models at more or less 4%.

[north]

added two just now so here is an update of last chart:

Here is the breakdown of my 146 pattern invoices:
#1...3spd man no AC-0 parchment, 5 black
#2...3spd man w/AC- 0 parchment, o black
#3...4spd man no AC-26 parchment, 74 black
#4...4spd man w/AC-1 parchment, 4 black
#5...auto no AC-4 parchment, 7 black
#6...auto w/AC- 16 parchment, 8 black

[trishieldchief]

Thank you for the base 3 speed info North.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pvp44

PHS Docs

One other thing I didn't point out ,
Your invoice number starts with a { P } - PGA 489543
That means it was dealer or customer order.

Pattern Cars all start with a { Z } for Zone Order

They left off in-dash gauges with clock , remote mirror , deluxe seatbelts , SoftRay all .
Saved about $200

[johnta1]

Here is a pattern Judge with some hi-lited info:

[pvp44]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Yours is Non-Pattern .
Trimmed some fat by not getting Deluxe Seatbelts or SoftRay Glass ALL.
They didn't use the Zone Pattern Order.
A dealer or customer selected the items.

Early built car though.
Probably 02A or 02B on the trim tag.
Would have GTO emblem over the heater controls originally , and no Judge emblem on glovebox.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Yes, GTO emblem over heater controls and likely did not have glove box emblem though it did when I got it in 1998.Thanks for the info, anything else I should look for?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Would be good to know the build week from the trim tag.
Such as 02A 02B or etc...

Car is a little bit of a rule breaker being Non-Pattern and built that early.
We have to keep modifying with new discoveries .

[turbo69bird]

Somewhere in here I paired about my freinds pattern judge. If you look through my histiry you’ll fin a post inthe thread about the judge w custom paint. I posted his bun tag date in there. I dint think I’ve had his PHS before. But that may help you with some info. Believe it had his options also listed.


He’s a super private guy but if I can I’ll see if I can get a copy of his PhS if he has one

[johnta1]

Was it the 'Hangin Judge'?
If so it is in the list I have. 01 00064

Just saw in a thread you posted a cowl tag and it had a vinyl top.
That would NOT be a pattern Judge.

[pvp44]

Data Plate reads 02A, thaanks

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pvp44

Data Plate reads 02A, thaanks

Thanks for sharing the details on your car.
It still benefits North's statistics and breakdowns.

02D cars are where the glovebox emblems started being part of the package.

[north]

Earliest non-pattern Judges by plant (I am using VIN sequence as an indicator of build date-about 15% of my invoices have trim tag data so I can equate VIN to build week give or take a week)

A: 121385 (no trim tag but must be right on edge of 02C-02D)
B: 151XXX (oddball Canadian shipped car, not a pattern (18 options but first shipped Judge in my collection of any plant). Shipped on jan 23rd, probably 01B but no tag. I suspect it was a publicity car. Oddities include special order axle but M20 (should be M21 with special order axle), has wood wheel, exhaust tips,
B: 151729 (another Canadian shipped car, 7 options shipped jan 27th, o1B on the tag), there is another shipped to Canada car about a day or two later but with 18 options
B: 158245 (first US bound non pattern at Baltimore, feb 14, probably an 02B tag, 8 options
G: 126498 (shipping date not legible but 01C is tag date), 8 options
P: didn't produce GTO's until well after the pattern car run
R: 135694 (a convertible, shipped march 24th but trim tag date would be on line between 02A-02B), perhaps they pulled a convertible car off the line for pre-production work, Maybe to fit the new convertible wing?)
R: 141545 (shipped feb 28th, trim tag is probably 02C), 15 options
Z: 115268 (shippedjan 31st, 01D, similar to pattern but no gauges or tach but with exhaust tips, trim tag was probably 01D

Btw, I noticed something going through my listing. It seems like Judges were made in "blocks" of cars in every plant. I see clusters of 5-10 in a row and then none till the next batch. Perhaps there was an advantage to produce them like that? I would have thought the opposite because of the labor to do the stripes (perhaps that was done off the line?). Maybe what I'm seeing is really just doing cars in "blocks" of the same color?

[pvp44]

Where would mine fit in being Baltimore built w/vin #130254 and 02A? Is it any more or less desirable being an early non-pattern car? Thank you all for your expertise on deciphering the PHS, I used to think I was fairly knowledgeable on these cars!

[north]

Yours is actually built in Framingham (G on the invoice) Massachusetts. My opinion on value is that value is driven first by condition and secondly by desirable colors and options (4spd>automatic, RAIV>RAIII etc). I think in general the Carrousel Red cars have higher value than the other colors except for maybe blue or black? I don't think most buyers assign a meaningful premium to pattern cars.