[KS circutguy]

Greg Biffle Tragedy: I Went to the Crash Site in Statesville, NC — What I Found Was Shocking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srSOXraHSGs
Probably the best video @ photos of crash sight by amateur I've seen so far.

[Nobuddy]

Originally Posted by Limelight69

Wow. Crazy sad. So avoidable. As a pilot myself it’s hard to imagine the thought process here. That’s a lot of low altitude maneuvering in an underpowered aircraft with a lot of drag going on.
Even if you’re set on returning to the same airport, get yourself to altitude, clean things up and get set up for a proper approach. But knowing Charlotte was only 32 miles away where you had a towered airport and “help” makes it even more sad.

Only thing that makes any sense to me is flying without a legal second and not wanting to get caught.

[Limelight69]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

Only thing that makes any sense to me is flying without a legal second and not wanting to get caught.

Valid point

[60sstuff]

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone had a discussion on the possibility of an engine failure and how that may have happened on take off.

This seems to be the reason this plane needed to turn back and with 7 people, luggage and full load of fuel the single working engine just wasn’t enough power to deal with situation.

[Limelight69]

Originally Posted by 60sstuff

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone had a discussion on the possibility of an engine failure and how that may have happened on take off.

This seems to be the reason this plane needed to turn back and with 7 people, luggage and full load of fuel the single working engine just wasn’t enough power to deal with situation.

It does sound like it was an engine failure but assuming the remaining engine was performing nominally they could have made it back safely. There could be more to the story and way off base here. But at face value it does look like some poor decisions by the PIC might have led to this unnecessary tragedy.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by burd

I traveled for a living for 30 years. Way safer.

Yet, you NEVER knew the aircraft you were flying on may have had its last phase inspection deferred due to “financial” concerns.

[burd]

And I’m still here, screw those tiny planes.

Let’s start a list who died in these small planes.

Here’s a start, 70

https://youtu.be/b4Wl4ci6-aI?si=QB3Wb8og7tBXiRH4

[KS circutguy]

Long rant from pilot about old airline pilots.
Why the pilot didn't mayday.
WOW
Worth your time if you have it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkPUN57uGTw

[KS circutguy]

summary;
1. The pilot in command (PIC) was likely Biffle's regular pilot, Dennis Dutton., and the co-pilot was like the pilot's 20 year old son, Jack.
2. The FAA requires that the Citation 550 have a qualified (on the Citation 550) co-pilot on EVERY flight, unless the PIC has a waiver. As of a few days ago, Dutton's aviation license does not list a waiver to fly the Citation 550 solo.
3. The Citation 550 is very easy to overload... if full fuel, a couple of passengers and normal luggage would put it at its limit. We do not know if this flight.has full fuel. Maybe it had less. 7 passengers plus luggage might have been severely overweight.
*EDIT* Not sure where I read this point #4 but nobody else seems to have read this, so it is probably not correct Most say one engine was out, but nobody seems to know why END OF EDIT **---- 4. Several ground witnesses said they saw something like luggage come out of the plane and hit the right (starboard) engine.
5. Dutton was Biffle's regular pilot. Biffle either did or did not know this was an illegal flight b/c there was no qualified co-pilot. If he did know, then he approved an illegal and dangerous flight. If he did not know the flight was illegal, then pilot Dutton was not only negligent, but dishonest, in not informing Biffle that a co-pilot was required by FAA regulation. My gut tells me Biffle knew, but figured an excellent retired airline pilot would be able to handle any emergency that might arise, and that the FAA regulation did not apply to him.
6. When *edit* (one engine) failed, an emergency arose. Procedures for handling that emergency would be known by both pilot and co-pilot, and together they would calmly establish a plan to get the plane on the ground safely. Because there was no qualified co-pilot, the PIC was overwhelmed with tasks, having not even yet completed his normal checklist for takeoff.
7. The PIC decided to return to this remote airfield. Some speculate that it was b/c he knew he and more importantly his son (who some report wanted to eventually fly for an airline), would permanently lose his license if they were to declare an emergency and had they flown the mere 6 extra miles into the safer airport in Charlotte, where his illegal (both father an son) flight would have been exposed.
8. As experience C550 pilot @fernandorosales2418 writes below, Even if the plane were (somewhat) overweight, with neutral flaps and gear up, it should have been able with one engine to take an extended loopy turn to line up for re-landing at the same airport. But as we heard in the audio, flaps were NOT neutral, and gear was NOT up. This is a fatal mistake, combined with a tight final turn into runway approach. Overweight plus tight turn, plus flaps down ,plus gear down = almost certain crash. If the plane were severely overweight, it is possible that even sound re-landing decisions by the PIC would not have resulted in a safe landing. How much fuel was on board is the missing piece of information.
9. Flight plan is reported to have been Charlotte to Bradenton, which is 619 miles. It is possible that this flight was only fueled to 40-50%, given the 550's range of 1500-2000 miles depending on variant. I read the 550 has a 5,000 lb. fuel capacity. If it were only half full, that frees up 2,500 lbs for extra passengers and luggage. It is certainly possible the flight was NOT overweight.
10. Had there been a qualified co-pilot, rather and a 20 year old kid who was probably licensed for a single engine prop plane, in right seat, that co-pilot would have advised the PIC that it was way to early to have flaps and gear down, and that the approach turn needed to be wide. The PIC missed this. It was a mistake. A qualified C550 co-pilot almost surely would have calmed the PIC, taken some of the load, and helped the PIC to land this plane safely. That is why the FAA requires a qualified co-pilot on the Citation 550.

[KS circutguy]

summary;
1. The pilot in command (PIC) was likely Biffle's regular pilot, Dennis Dutton., and the co-pilot was like the pilot's 20 year old son, Jack.
2. The FAA requires that the Citation 550 have a qualified (on the Citation 550) co-pilot on EVERY flight, unless the PIC has a waiver. As of a few days ago, Dutton's aviation license does not list a waiver to fly the Citation 550 solo.
3. The Citation 550 is very easy to overload... if full fuel, a couple of passengers and normal luggage would put it at its limit. We do not know if this flight.has full fuel. Maybe it had less. 7 passengers plus luggage might have been severely overweight.
*EDIT* Not sure where I read this point #4 but nobody else seems to have read this, so it is probably not correct Most say one engine was out, but nobody seems to know why END OF EDIT **---- 4. Several ground witnesses said they saw something like luggage come out of the plane and hit the right (starboard) engine.
5. Dutton was Biffle's regular pilot. Biffle either did or did not know this was an illegal flight b/c there was no qualified co-pilot. If he did know, then he approved an illegal and dangerous flight. If he did not know the flight was illegal, then pilot Dutton was not only negligent, but dishonest, in not informing Biffle that a co-pilot was required by FAA regulation. My gut tells me Biffle knew, but figured an excellent retired airline pilot would be able to handle any emergency that might arise, and that the FAA regulation did not apply to him.
6. When *edit* (one engine) failed, an emergency arose. Procedures for handling that emergency would be known by both pilot and co-pilot, and together they would calmly establish a plan to get the plane on the ground safely. Because there was no qualified co-pilot, the PIC was overwhelmed with tasks, having not even yet completed his normal checklist for takeoff.
7. The PIC decided to return to this remote airfield. Some speculate that it was b/c he knew he and more importantly his son (who some report wanted to eventually fly for an airline), would permanently lose his license if they were to declare an emergency and had they flown the mere 6 extra miles into the safer airport in Charlotte, where his illegal (both father an son) flight would have been exposed.
8. As experience C550 pilot @fernandorosales2418 writes below, Even if the plane were (somewhat) overweight, with neutral flaps and gear up, it should have been able with one engine to take an extended loopy turn to line up for re-landing at the same airport. But as we heard in the audio, flaps were NOT neutral, and gear was NOT up. This is a fatal mistake, combined with a tight final turn into runway approach. Overweight plus tight turn, plus flaps down ,plus gear down = almost certain crash. If the plane were severely overweight, it is possible that even sound re-landing decisions by the PIC would not have resulted in a safe landing. How much fuel was on board is the missing piece of information.
9. Flight plan is reported to have been Charlotte to Bradenton, which is 619 miles. It is possible that this flight was only fueled to 40-50%, given the 550's range of 1500-2000 miles depending on variant. I read the 550 has a 5,000 lb. fuel capacity. If it were only half full, that frees up 2,500 lbs for extra passengers and luggage. It is certainly possible the flight was NOT overweight.
10. Had there been a qualified co-pilot, rather and a 20 year old kid who was probably licensed for a single engine prop plane, in right seat, that co-pilot would have advised the PIC that it was way to early to have flaps and gear down, and that the approach turn needed to be wide. The PIC missed this. It was a mistake. A qualified C550 co-pilot almost surely would have calmed the PIC, taken some of the load, and helped the PIC to land this plane safely. That is why the FAA requires a qualified co-pilot on the Citation 550.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by burd

And I’m still here, screw those tiny planes.

Let’s start a list who died in these small planes.

Here’s a start, 70

https://youtu.be/b4Wl4ci6-aI?si=QB3Wb8og7tBXiRH4

I have flown hundreds of hours in corporate aircraft, as a passenger and as a post maintenance observer; NEVER had a problem. Shall we start listing all the airline crashes that were due to deferred or improper maintenance?

[KS circutguy]

Dam shame./
Greg Biffle Plane Crash: NTSB's Shocking Update!
NASCAR Legend Greg Biffle and 6 others, including his wife and two children, died in a plane crash and the NTSB just released their preliminary report with shocking details that most people did not expect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibYHHw1iIhs

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

Only thing that makes any sense to me is flying without a legal second and not wanting to get caught.

550s CAN be flown WITHOUT a co-pilot. Ever heard of Cessna Citation 551, better known as the Citation II SP( Single Pilot)?

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by KS circutguy

Dam shame./
Greg Biffle Plane Crash: NTSB's Shocking Update!
NASCAR Legend Greg Biffle and 6 others, including his wife and two children, died in a plane crash and the NTSB just released their preliminary report with shocking details that most people did not expect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibYHHw1iIhs

Haven’t seen the NTSB preliminary report, but I will read it once it is released.

[KS circutguy]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Haven’t seen the NTSB preliminary report, but I will read it once it is released.

The whole point of the above video link was he reads the preliminary report along with flight path data.

[KS circutguy]

heres a link to report;
NTSB Report date was 12-18-2025 in Statesville, North Carolina - Cessna Citation II (C550)
scroll down the page to date 12/18/2025
https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-pub...h=12&year=2025

[Nobuddy]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

550s CAN be flown WITHOUT a co-pilot. Ever heard of Cessna Citation 551, better known as the Citation II SP( Single Pilot)?

What does that have to do with this 550 and this pilot?

[TXSTARFIRE]

The pilot that was flying the plane had a restriction on his license or whatever you call it that stated that he needed a co-pilot for the plane he was flying.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

What does that have to do with this 550 and this pilot?

The 551 IS the same aircraft as 550; same systems…zero difference except for being limited to flying under 30,000 feet and the PIC having to stay on O2 the entire flight above 12,000 ft AGL. Citation IIs CAN be flown in a single pilot operation.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by TXSTARFIRE

The pilot that was flying the plane had a restriction on his license or whatever you call it that stated that he needed a co-pilot for the plane he was flying.

Unless the aircraft is a 501SP or a 551SP s co-pilot is required to fly any 500-550 series Cessna Citation.