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grandville455 · 10-01-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

Darby,
What are using for a set-up? I know that you had gone though some changes on fans etc....

Dave

Dave Just using a dpst toggle to turn it on low and then on high.. works good at the track when its just sitting gets up to 185 turn it on and cool it to about 1701-75 and the turn it off and make a pass..

1967Tempest · 10-01-2010, 04:47 PM

NICE!!!! Car must pull hard with the cooler air outside too. Fall is the best time of the year. Period.....

Tripower455 · 10-12-2010, 01:04 PM

Well, the saga continues.......

With the slightly cooler air of Fall (low/mid 80's) the GTO is running a lot cooler with the Taurus fan.

Last week, I ran it up through the gears, and at the top of 3rd, heard a loud BANG. I was within a mile of my house, so I took it easy on the way home. I had been doing some tuning and at first thought it was a lean on the top end (which would've been a first!) but when I got home, found that the plastic part of the alternator fan was gone! The thing just came apart at about 6k rpm.

At first, I thought there was no damage, but upon further inspection, it put a nice dent in one of my inner hood supports , the inner fender and the edge of the hood (thankfully, no damage is visible from the outside).

Also, the rear alternator strap (which is all I had on the car because the front one didn't fit right with the 11 bolt pump) that I had to widen to fit the larger CS144 bolt, broke, so I ended up welding up a new one and fabricating a front strap for extra support.

It never ends.......

Tripower455 · 10-13-2010, 01:22 AM

Here are some pics of the carnage. I found half of the fan behind the battery, but the rest is gone.

Stellar was kind enough to send me a metal fan that is the same diameter as the plastic one. I am not thrilled about less alternator cooling, but I'd rather replace an alternator then redo the bodywork and paint on my hood!

Karch · 10-13-2010, 02:33 AM

I believe DCControls recommends inserting the probe at the cooler end of the radiator due to his thought process of allowing the fan to maintain a specific temperature, not vary between, say, 180-195.

From what I read, and remember, going back about 3-4 years (I actually have a very good memory), his idea was for the fan to vary in speed to maintain the coolant temps, again, not to come on at 195, off at 180, back on at 195 (these temps are just examples).

That being said, I have his controller, still in the box. I also have a few fans around here (Corvette C6, Taurus, MK VIII).

My DD is a Trailblazer SS, 6.0L LS2, with a pathetic radiator. I had an enormous 19" mechanical fan with clutch on there, and I swear when I put an e-fan on, I gained at least 1 mpg, maybe 1.5, and you actually notice a better throttle response.

I had the 16" Corvette fan on, which uses a PWM controller that receives a signal from the ECM. I didn't like that it was only 16", and the shroud isn't impressive, so I bolted and spliced another MK VIII fan on with the C6 controller, and I've been running this setup since about March.

Tripower, I see and hear your pain. The only thing left to do is move to a cooler climate.

All joking aside, Pontiacs are notorious for having issues with heat. And, especially with a 455 in an A-body. I raced at Carlsobad one year at a BOP meet, and the only cars in the watering hole section were Pontiacs. The Buicks and Olds didn't have the same problems.

Have you tried the joining of the water crossover at the rear of the heads, or even up to the intake crossover?

If you are above 35mph, and you have problems, you have to look beyond the fan, unless the fan is prohibiting the air from getting through the radiator (unlikely).

I've been away from this site for quite awhile, just plain busy and also playing with my TBSS, but I'm interested in this thread.

Good luck.

lust4speed · 10-13-2010, 02:55 AM

Carlsbad? That track (RIP) was almost on the coast.

Worse day racing at LACR was 112° - and even the POCI drags at Auto Club Dragway a couple of years ago it was 105° with 149° track temp.

...and I had to walk to school both ways up hill, in the snow, without shoes

Karch · 10-13-2010, 03:05 AM

Mick, I remember about, oh, 25 years ago when the Pontiac boys were up at LACR, I was staged against a pretty, blue, 67 Goat running open headers.

I was running low 14's, he was mid 12's. I got a great light, and that's the last I heard for quite a while

Carlsbad, the day I was racing, was in the high 80's, maybe even 90.

1967Tempest · 10-13-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripower455

Here are some pics of the carnage. I found half of the fan behind the battery, but the rest is gone.

Stellar was kind enough to send me a metal fan that is the same diameter as the plastic one. I am not thrilled about less alternator cooling, but I'd rather replace an alternator then redo the bodywork and paint on my hood!

Is this a known issue on a CS144??

Tripower455 · 10-13-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

Is this a known issue on a CS144??

It is now!

1967Tempest · 10-13-2010, 11:01 AM

Sorry that you had to find out with shrapnel. I have a metal fan on my Summit 100A alternator. I have noticed that it has a him in it like a scrape, but it works fine and I ALWAYS carry a spare in the trunk.

Is there a difference in pitch or number of blades on the plastic one? Why does the plastic one offer more cooling?

Tripower455 · 10-13-2010, 11:25 AM

I am not sure if the plastic one is more efficient, but it is a completely different design than the metal one. It looks more like an impeller than a fan.

We'll see if it doesn't burn up!

I'm gonna pick up a spare just in case. I can change the thing in about 10 minutes. Far better than putting the car in the body shop for months, not to mention the cost differential.

Tripower455 · 10-13-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karch

I believe DCControls recommends inserting the probe at the cooler end of the radiator due to his thought process of allowing the fan to maintain a specific temperature, not vary between, say, 180-195.

From what I read, and remember, going back about 3-4 years (I actually have a very good memory), his idea was for the fan to vary in speed to maintain the coolant temps, again, not to come on at 195, off at 180, back on at 195 (these temps are just examples).

I still am not grasping the idea. Who cares what the temp in the radiator is, as long as the engine temp is in check? The engine is making the heat, and the function of the radiator is to cool the water that the engine has heated.

Mine is finally running cooler with the cooler weather. I am able to run the AC and it doesn't go above 195.

Karch · 10-13-2010, 11:44 AM

Great that you got it resolved. As for the DCControls method, I believe his thinking is to control the temp going into the engine, taking into account the efficiency, or lack thereof, of the radiator.

I'm just the messenger, but I wanted to share what I believe is his method.

lust4speed · 10-13-2010, 12:17 PM

Karch - just messin' with ya a little. Temps at Carlsbad would get pretty nasty with the wind blowing in from the east.

As far as the 144S - that plastic alternator fan is pretty good sized. If you have an 8" crank pulley and 2-1/2" alternator pulley the plastic alternator fan is turning 19.200 RPM at 6,000 engine speed. I wonder if that is over the maximum design speed?

bignate · 10-14-2010, 01:50 PM

Here is a thought, tripower, is there a lot of room for the air to flow out of the engine compartment? If there isn't a low pressure area in or at the back or bottom of the engine compartment it will not pull the air through the fan shroud.

1967Tempest · 10-14-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignate

Here is a thought, tripower, is there a lot of room for the air to flow out of the engine compartment? If there isn't a low pressure area in or at the back or bottom of the engine compartment it will not pull the air through the fan shroud.

I agree. You are so close.. There has to be something that you are missing. Socrates' is attached to a cold air intake system which might block more air, and he runs ICE cold in the same car. I think that the magic bullet is in your grasp!!!

grandville455 · 10-14-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Karch - just messin' with ya a little. Temps at Carlsbad would get pretty nasty with the wind blowing in from the east.

As far as the 144S - that plastic alternator fan is pretty good sized. If you have an 8" crank pulley and 2-1/2" alternator pulley the plastic alternator fan is turning 19.200 RPM at 6,000 engine speed. I wonder if that is over the maximum design speed?

Lets not go there now!, I run that same alt

Tripower455 · 10-14-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignate

Here is a thought, tripower, is there a lot of room for the air to flow out of the engine compartment? If there isn't a low pressure area in or at the back or bottom of the engine compartment it will not pull the air through the fan shroud.

Well, other than the hood, there is nothing blocking any exit.

Tripower455 · 10-14-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

I agree. You are so close.. There has to be something that you are missing. Socrates' is attached to a cold air intake system which might block more air, and he runs ICE cold in the same car. I think that the magic bullet is in your grasp!!!

I think it's just gonna run like this. It's not overheating, it just runs hotter at speed than at idle, which is the exact opposite of what it did with the mech setup, so I'm guessing that the fan is blocking some airflow at speed.

Anyway, it's running fine now with the cooler weather.

bignate · 10-14-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripower455

Well, other than the hood, there is nothing blocking any exit.

Even tho the exits aren't blocked, if there is nothing creating a low pressure area the air will not be drawn through the radiator. Think Trans-Am fender extractors or air dam under front bumper. As good as ram air is in the grill area if there is not a low pressure area it will just be like there isn't an opening for it to go through.

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