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Old Goat 67 · 10-11-2013, 01:06 PM

Thanks, we tried.
All I can say at this point is "deaf and dumb village again"!
Seems to be the norm in America today, how I long for yesteryear!

Only fix for this crap is to find an old pump with the correct curvature impellor, pull or press it off the shaft and press it onto the the new pump body and run cool!!!

Charles

GT182 · 10-11-2013, 02:22 PM

There might be other companies that will listen. Doubtful but you never know. If there's a way we'll try see what can be done.

At least there's correct 8 bolt divider plates being made.... they look like the originals from what I can see. Haven't gotten a set yet but it's on my list of must haves. Inline Tube is the source.

1967Tempest · 12-11-2013, 08:19 AM

I just ordered Part Number: 55-11137 from Rock Auto. Got a STAMPED impeller. Ill return it and keep looking...

Ziggy · 12-13-2013, 09:35 AM

Just an FYI.......Just got a cast impeller one from NAPA. They told me that there are only 5 rebuilt Cardone's left (in the USA) in their (NAPA's) inventory. The local NAPA called Cardone as they first wanted to order a rebuilt one directly from them as they did not trust NAPA's inventory. When they spoke to Cardone in PA they indicated that the only way Cardone can provide the cast impeller was to send mine in on a RR basis. And, the cost expected would be $200 +. The cost of Cardone rebuilt one in NAPA's inventory was $120 plus core charge. (Incidentally, most were in the Buffalo wharehouse of NAPA.) I brought it home and put it on the shelf for future. Good luck!!!

arbys · 12-13-2013, 09:41 AM

As mentioned before I sent my fuel pump to NY and he also does water pumps. Very reasonable so you may want to check him out. He rebuilds YOUR equipment, he doesn't replace it with another.

http://arthurgouldrebuilders.com/

Engine-Ear · 12-13-2013, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbys

As mentioned before I sent my fuel pump to NY and he also does water pumps. Very reasonable so you may want to check him out. He rebuilds YOUR equipment, he doesn't replace it with another.

http://arthurgouldrebuilders.com/

I added him to the RediRad page on Facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/RediRad?ref=hl

Shops like these NEED recognition.

scorpio ps · 12-14-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbys

As mentioned before I sent my fuel pump to NY and he also does water pumps. Very reasonable so you may want to check him out. He rebuilds YOUR equipment, he doesn't replace it with another.

http://arthurgouldrebuilders.com/

I sent my '69 Hurst Olds water pump to these folks. They did a great job and will leave the exterior surface as is if you like originality. Great bunch with a very quick turnaround.

Ollie · 12-15-2013, 07:27 AM

This is another small business water pump repair.
The Water Pump Man.
http://www.waterpumpman.com/index.html

GT182 · 01-28-2014, 03:47 PM

Back up... all is not lost. I had a conversation with my contact at Cardone in Philly. He is looking into the part number issue on the 8 bolt water pump with the correct cast impeller for the original Pontiac divider plates. It'll take a few days as he has to get photos and info to Cardone in Dallas so they can find them in the warehouse.

If this comes thru I will eat crow for saying they dropped the ball on us. Cross everything you can that it works out.

Old Goat 67 · 01-28-2014, 05:27 PM

Just sent a very detailed email to Gary's contact in Cardone. We'll see how he responds and let you guys know.

Charles

Old Goat 67 · 01-28-2014, 06:49 PM

This posted here for better understanding.

Quote:

Here is the explanation I sent to cardone earlier.

Maybe it will help you to understand better.

Quote:

The pumps you are putting out mostly have the impellers configured like this.

Improper or no contour to match what the plates have.

Which, when placed in the timing cover on the front of our Pontiac engines leaves a gap between the impeller and plate like this which causes cavitation and drastically reduced & improper water flow through the radiator. This gap generally measures ¼” or more.

I was lucky enough back in 2008 to find one of your 58-299 pumps that got through your system without having had the OEM type impeller cut down which looked like this. Here is a shot of the one I bought by chance and how it fits.

Mine runs so cool it's like I FINALLY have a brand new car! The volume of water movement is phenomenal! Engine temperature WILL NOT get above 5° of rating of thermostat! Even with AC on in July in Louisiana.

Notice how well the taller/contoured vanes pump fits the original plates here. Curvature of the blades is an exact match to the original plate.

The bulge in the plates was actually part of the pump chamber, allowing maximum pump volume for the given space allowed in the front of the timing chain cover.

This gives you a better idea where these pumps, plates and timing chain cover go together.

Inline Tube has started making the OEM correct plates, but NO ONE is putting out pumps that match.

This eight bolt pump configuration was used from 1963 to 1968 and then an eleven bolt pump was introduced that went all the way to 1979 when Pontiac stopped producing the V8 engine.

The eleven bolt pumps have the same problem as these I just discussed.

We are constantly being asked by all the other Pontiac restorers where to get a PROPER water pump and we have to tell them “No one builds one”.

I’m sure we would be able to make it worth your while if you were to correct this grievous wrong we have to live with.

I would be willing to bet we could sell 500 to 1000 of these in the first month they became available.

Does that help?

Charles

arbys · 01-28-2014, 06:54 PM

Put me in for one1

GT182 · 01-29-2014, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbys

Put me in for one1

Ross, once we get the correct part number you will be able to go to a parts store that sells from Cardone and order it.

I'd get 2 if I were you just in case problems arise again.

Tho I hope that doesn't happen ever again. Once this is all straightened out we should be good to go.

What I need now from someone is photos of the 11 bolt pump with the correct original impeller so we can work on that. Cardone said they'd do them too, but I've never heard if they did or not.

68 Firebird · 01-29-2014, 08:23 PM

I'm with arby and will put an order in for the 11 bolt type!!
never can have too many spare parts!!!

CORRECT SPARE PARTS!!!!!

Thanks for all the effort on this guys

Gerry

rexs73gto · 01-30-2014, 12:50 AM

I have used both types of pumps , with the cast impeller & with the stamped impeller. It doesn't seem to matter to me which one I use. I get the same results with both of them. If you spend the time to clearance the cover with the impeller you won't have any problems with proper water flow. With the pumps I have NOW all I had to do was go back to square one & make sure the cover was the proper distance from the impeller & all is good. On the pump I have in my car right now which is a stamped impeller is to make sure the impeller is at between .25ths - .30ths & I have solved my cooling problems. I was running between 200-225 all the time & higher when it sat still. I hated it . I tried all the things that I was told to do but never did the fix on the pump itself. Once I did the clearancing on the impeller as I should have done in the first place I would have saved a whole lot of time & concern.

george kujanski · 01-30-2014, 03:17 PM

Obviously, the original post on the pump issue was comparing the cast vs the stamped impeller, however, the clearance issue is, in my mind, the major problem with Pontiac pumps. Since a comparison of impeller types is difficult to do, everything else being equal, i think my first choice would be a properly clearanced cast impeller due to more vane area, a clearanced stamped impeller as second choice.

George

Old Goat 67 · 01-30-2014, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

I have used both types of pumps , with the cast impeller & with the stamped impeller. It doesn't seem to matter to me which one I use. I get the same results with both of them. If you spend the time to clearance the cover with the impeller you won't have any problems with proper water flow. With the pumps I have NOW all I had to do was go back to square one & make sure the cover was the proper distance from the impeller & all is good. On the pump I have in my car right now which is a stamped impeller is to make sure the impeller is at between .25ths - .30ths & I have solved my cooling problems. I was running between 200-225 all the time & higher when it sat still. I hated it . I tried all the things that I was told to do but never did the fix on the pump itself. Once I did the clearancing on the impeller as I should have done in the first place I would have saved a whole lot of time & concern.

So, how much did you spend on all the "fixes" before clearancing the plate?

zephyrracer · 05-15-2014, 07:50 PM

Hi all just reading up here and a question, is it the impeller that needs to be remade if so and someone here has the correct for the 8 and 11 bolt I can take them to a local shop around the corner to see how much to have them cast, side not my GTO 400 runs 210 and I would like to get it down to 190-195 I don't believe it would be that expensive. Anything I can do to help would be my pleasure.

Gregg

Old Goat 67 · 05-15-2014, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zephyrracer

Hi all just reading up here and a question, is it the impeller that needs to be remade if so and someone here has the correct for the 8 and 11 bolt I can take them to a local shop around the corner to see how much to have them cast, side not my GTO 400 runs 210 and I would like to get it down to 190-195 I don't believe it would be that expensive. Anything I can do to help would be my pleasure.

Gregg

Before you go to all that, try calling this guy,

http://www.fdrbp.com/

I spoke with him last week and he was very knowledgeable about the Pontiac pump troubles and told me he has the "PROPER" impellers that he will sell for about $15 2 @
piece.

Charles

indymanjoe · 05-15-2014, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie

This is another small business water pump repair.
The Water Pump Man.
http://www.waterpumpman.com/index.html

This is who did mine.Very happy and quick turn around.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to arbys For This Useful Post:
Engine-Ear, Formulabruce, johnta1

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