Then and Now - Page 16 - PY Online Forums

pont3 · #**301** 02-11-2005, 10:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:
I have just read a lot of this thread and I must be bored to have done so. I am a die hard Pontiac guy (GTO's, Judges, Trans Ams) Mr-GTO and others stop trying to convince yourselves that the new GTO has a Pontiac engine. It may be a corporate block but it is more Chevy then any other brand. No Cadillac V-8 comments either please. And secondly the new GTO handles great, runs great but it looks like a Grand Am on Steriods simple as that. You have to look twice at one to realize it is a GTO on the street. Someone at GM dropped the ball on this car and it is a shame. Ford is going to kick some butt with their new designs. I was going to buy a new 05 GTO and decided not to . I am buying a new GT Mustang and with the 4,000 I am saving I am investing in a Paxton underhood blower kit (3,500) which will give me 450HP. See ya later GTO. I predict the new GTO will cease production in 06 and they will bring back the Camaro to compete with the Stang.

Here's the quote from GM's website regarding the LS-1
"GM's family of LS1 overhead-valve V-8 engines can trace its roots to the fabled Chevrolet small-block V-8, yet the LS1 is much more than an offshoot from the small-block family tree. The LS1 continues the small-block's longstanding virtues of compact size, simplicity, reliability and high specific output." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glad you got that off your chest!!!!! Enjoy your new mustang.

Tripower455 · #**302** 02-11-2005, 11:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:
I have just read a lot of this thread and I must be bored to have done so. I am a die hard Pontiac guy (GTO's, Judges, Trans Ams) Mr-GTO and others stop trying to convince yourselves that the new GTO has a Pontiac engine. It may be a corporate block but it is more Chevy then any other brand. No Cadillac V-8 comments either please. And secondly the new GTO handles great, runs great but it looks like a Grand Am on Steriods simple as that. You have to look twice at one to realize it is a GTO on the street. Someone at GM dropped the ball on this car and it is a shame. Ford is going to kick some butt with their new designs. I was going to buy a new 05 GTO and decided not to . I am buying a new GT Mustang and with the 4,000 I am saving I am investing in a Paxton underhood blower kit (3,500) which will give me 450HP. See ya later GTO. I predict the new GTO will cease production in 06 and they will bring back the Camaro to compete with the Stang.

Here's the quote from GM's website regarding the LS-1
"GM's family of LS1 overhead-valve V-8 engines can trace its roots to the fabled Chevrolet small-block V-8, yet the LS1 is much more than an offshoot from the small-block family tree. The LS1 continues the small-block's longstanding virtues of compact size, simplicity, reliability and high specific output." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do know that the Rustang doesn't have a Pontiac engine in it, don't you?

It may look good, but it is still a Ford.....

I'll take a fast, comfortable nice handling GTO over a slow, cramped, lousy handling Rustang any day of the week.........

RAIVJUDGE · #**303** 02-11-2005, 12:38 PM

I may be a die hard Pontiac guy but I am a car enthusiast and I don't let my brand loyalty cloud my judgement. I have driven both the new Mustang has more room, especially in the back seat area. It also feels tighter and more like a sports car should. And when you say the new Stang is slow it is a few tenths slower then the new GTO. When I take the 4,000 I save and invest it into the Mustangs engine I will have 450 HP. Which car will be slow now? My 69 Shelby also rides better then f-bodies of the same era and my Judge never complains when this car is parked next to it

Goat luver · #**304** 02-11-2005, 04:45 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:. I am a die hard Pontiac guy (GTO's, Judges, Trans Ams)

How can you possibly call yourself a "die hard Pontiac guy" if you are going to buy a 05 Rustang in preference to a 05 GTO?

Your statement doesn't make sense.

Tripower455 · #**305** 02-11-2005, 06:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:
I may be a die hard Pontiac guy but I am a car enthusiast and I don't let my brand loyalty cloud my judgement. I have driven both the new Mustang has more room, especially in the back seat area. It also feels tighter and more like a sports car should. And when you say the new Stang is slow it is a few tenths slower then the new GTO. When I take the 4,000 I save and invest it into the Mustangs engine I will have 450 HP. Which car will be slow now? My 69 Shelby also rides better then f-bodies of the same era and my Judge never complains when this car is parked next to it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...pics/yen12.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you think a rustang handles better and has more room and is faster than a new GTO, then you haven't driven both. A few tenths is still slower, and the ride sucks on the Mustang. Always has and always will.

There is no comparison, and it's not blind brand loyalty either. There is simply no other car available, including the rustang, that offers what the GTO does.

Nice Shelby btw..... but it's still a ford....

Brew · #**306** 02-11-2005, 10:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:
I have driven both the new Mustang has more room, especially in the back seat area. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who the F$%* are you trying to fool?

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**307** 02-12-2005, 12:33 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
i was told that if you put a roller cam in a street car its not as durable as a hyd cam. but when i look at a summit catalog with cams for a LT1/LS1 i scratch my head and wonder why i was told that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple. Bad info in, bad info out. Read all the magazines you can. Lots of good information in those. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i would but every mag i look at says a diffrent story. the mustang books (dont read them but im going on a guess here) trash chevies the chevy mags trash mustangs and if you go in the middle like R&T,C&D, and all those whoever spends more advertising dollars gets the best review. it also seems like what they cover are in my mind luxury cars like BMW's,Audi's,... hell i dont know which mag to believe.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**308** 02-12-2005, 12:47 AM

how can something with a soild rear axle handle better ? ok go ahead and spend $3,500 on a paxton and have 450 hp. you can do the same with the 04 gto. heres a link of a local speed shop with a guy that put a supercharger on his 04. speed costs money how fast do you wanna go ?

http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=24

keep in mind the 05 has 50 more hp then the 04.

RAIVJUDGE · #**309** 02-12-2005, 08:43 AM

First of all I am a die hard Pontiac guy ( older Pontiacs) The new ones all look the same and I believe that a car with the GTO nameplate should be distinctive looking and you should not have to squint at one coming down the street and say is it a Grand Am, GrandPrix, G6 ? And for the guy who said I must not have driven both I did . The GTO at Davis Pontiac and the new 05 Mustang at Fred Beans in Doylestown. i am 6'2" and can keep my head in a more upright position in the backseat of the Mustang go figure, I know what the advertised specs say I sat in and drove both so please do not think my comments are because I like the Ford better they are an unbiased comparison.

And Rustang comments are pretty funny since most GTO's and F-bodies rotted away the same way as a Ford. BTW that Shelby is totally rust free , I have 300 pics of the rotisserie resto to prove it. Not many Poncho or Ford guys can claim that.

I more them anyone wanted the new 05 GTO to be the next car I bought but I can't. I like a car to be distictive the new GTO even the 05 is not, so what, they put some scoops on it and split the exhaust out the rear and it has 50 more hp you still have to look twice at it. At the used car auctions they are give away cars because no one wants them, kinda like the Fiero was.

The most recognizable American cars are the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro and Firebird. GM has a winner in the Corvette, they should spend their money and revamp and bring back either the Camaro or Firebird. The GTO and GTO Judge are recognized by true musclecar enthusiasts and are big dollar collectables. Most people know what a GTO is, they don't identify with it because they killed the name off in 74. If GM wanted to go after the BMW market with the Pontiac line they would have been better off using a number to name the new car ie: 346H.O. or 346H or something like that.

The reason to install a Paxton on a new Mustang is because that used to be an option on Shelby Mustangs, thought it would be retro to do one up like a modern Shelby.

Sorry for the rambling, and remember I never said the new GTO was a bad car it handles great and it has good acceleration, it just should'nt be called GTO, it will never be the Legend that the old cars were and still are.

judge_jury_executioner your avatar is funny. P*& on Imports. The new GTO is an import are you p&**ing on that as well.

If I just wanted to go fast I would buy a new Z06 or a CTS-V. The CTS-V is faster then a GTO and new Stang. Imagine that a 4 door Cadillac, fast with class.

Tripower455 · #**310** 02-12-2005, 10:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:
First of all I am a die hard Pontiac guy ( older Pontiacs) The new ones all look the same and I believe that a car with the GTO nameplate should be distinctive looking and you should not have to squint at one coming down the street and say is it a Grand Am, GrandPrix, G6 ? And for the guy who said I must not have driven both I did . The GTO at Davis Pontiac and the new 05 Mustang at Fred Beans in Doylestown. i am 6'2" and can keep my head in a more upright position in the backseat of the Mustang go figure, I know what the advertised specs say I sat in and drove both so please do not think my comments are because I like the Ford better they are an unbiased comparison.

And Rustang comments are pretty funny since most GTO's and F-bodies rotted away the same way as a Ford. BTW that Shelby is totally rust free , I have 300 pics of the rotisserie resto to prove it. Not many Poncho or Ford guys can claim that.

I more them anyone wanted the new 05 GTO to be the next car I bought but I can't. I like a car to be distictive the new GTO even the 05 is not, so what, they put some scoops on it and split the exhaust out the rear and it has 50 more hp you still have to look twice at it. At the used car auctions they are give away cars because no one wants them, kinda like the Fiero was.

The most recognizable American cars are the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro and Firebird. GM has a winner in the Corvette, they should spend their money and revamp and bring back either the Camaro or Firebird. The GTO and GTO Judge are recognized by true musclecar enthusiasts and are big dollar collectables. Most people know what a GTO is, they don't identify with it because they killed the name off in 74. If GM wanted to go after the BMW market with the Pontiac line they would have been better off using a number to name the new car ie: 346H.O. or 346H or something like that.

The reason to install a Paxton on a new Mustang is because that used to be an option on Shelby Mustangs, thought it would be retro to do one up like a modern Shelby.

Sorry for the rambling, and remember I never said the new GTO was a bad car it handles great and it has good acceleration, it just should'nt be called GTO, it will never be the Legend that the old cars were and still are.

judge_jury_executioner your avatar is funny. P*& on Imports. The new GTO is an import are you p&**ing on that as well.

If I just wanted to go fast I would buy a new Z06 or a CTS-V. The CTS-V is faster then a GTO and new Stang. Imagine that a 4 door Cadillac, fast with class. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's funny is that a lot of us agree with 99% of this post.

You got lucky with your Shelby, rust wise. Old Rustangs are a bitch to repair if there is any kind of rot in the torque box area in the floors and there usually is. One of the many reasons I would probably never buy one. Fortunately, for the classic Mustang owner, you can buy just about the entire car out of a catalog. Much like the new ones, I LOVE the looks of the '68-70 Mustangs, especially the Shelbys, but that's about it. It would be nice if Ford used something other than water color paint on their vehicles as well. Oh, and for the company that pioneered the assembly line and parts interchange ability, Fords are surprisingly hard to buy parts for. I've owned 2 newer Ford vehicles, my '90 F-250, and my wife had an '89 Escort and 2 older trucks and they were all the same. Any time a part was needed, it was 3 trips to the parts store because depending on the time of day the car was made, it used a different, non interchangeable part. The o2 sensor for my truck is a good example. If I walk into a parts store, and tell them I need an o2 sensor for a '90 F-250, with all of the relevent engine/trans info, I will get the wrong part, guaranteed. They list several in the parts books for the same application, and NONE of them are the right one. I had to bring in the old one to get the one that fits my truck. The truck was bought new by me, so I know that it's only been changed once. For some reason, the truck came from the factory with F-350 spindles (a good thing IMHO) which makes getting spindle bearings and seals interesting if you don't know.

The Escort was the same way.

Overall, my truck has been great to me (192k and still going), but I've never had the parts issues with any other vehicles than Ford.

Have fun with the new rustang.........

Brew · #**311** 02-12-2005, 01:12 PM

i am 6'2" and can keep my head in a more upright position in the backseat of the Mustang go figure, I know what the advertised specs say I sat in and drove both so please do not think my comments are because I like the Ford better they are an unbiased comparison.

Ok, try this. Get in the drivers seat of the Mustang and adjust the seat so your comfortable. Then get out and try to get in the back seat. Then go to your nearest Pontiac dealer and do the same thing with the GTO. I'm 6'3", so I know the outcome.

BTW, other than the rear seat room, I agree with your post 100%. But, the lack of rear seat room in the Stang will prevent me from buying one, because our next car still has to be practical too. The 300C is looking more attractive every day, but I cant get past the pricing on those.

RandyW · #**312** 02-12-2005, 09:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> The new ones all look the same and I believe that a car with the GTO nameplate should be distinctive looking and you should not have to squint at one coming down the street and say is it a Grand Am, GrandPrix, G6 ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember, everyone recognizes a VW Beetle for what it is right away also. When everybody and his brother have a Mustang like you, it won't be very distinctive, anymore.

rabon008 · #**313** 02-12-2005, 11:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> The new ones all look the same and I believe that a car with the GTO nameplate should be distinctive looking and you should not have to squint at one coming down the street and say is it a Grand Am, GrandPrix, G6 ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember, everyone recognizes a VW Beetle for what it is right away also. When everybody and his brother have a Mustang like you, it won't be very distinctive, anymore.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is very much to my point Randy.

BTW: RAIVJUDGE, I wouldn't count on the 450HP making your 'stang quicker off the line than the 400HP '05 GTO unless you plan on changing the tranny and final gears as well.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**314** 02-13-2005, 12:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:
First of all I am a die hard Pontiac guy ( older Pontiacs) The new ones all look the same and I believe that a car with the GTO nameplate should be distinctive looking and you should not have to squint at one coming down the street and say is it a Grand Am, GrandPrix, G6 ? And for the guy who said I must not have driven both I did . The GTO at Davis Pontiac and the new 05 Mustang at Fred Beans in Doylestown. i am 6'2" and can keep my head in a more upright position in the backseat of the Mustang go figure, I know what the advertised specs say I sat in and drove both so please do not think my comments are because I like the Ford better they are an unbiased comparison.

And Rustang comments are pretty funny since most GTO's and F-bodies rotted away the same way as a Ford. BTW that Shelby is totally rust free , I have 300 pics of the rotisserie resto to prove it. Not many Poncho or Ford guys can claim that.

I more them anyone wanted the new 05 GTO to be the next car I bought but I can't. I like a car to be distictive the new GTO even the 05 is not, so what, they put some scoops on it and split the exhaust out the rear and it has 50 more hp you still have to look twice at it. At the used car auctions they are give away cars because no one wants them, kinda like the Fiero was.

The most recognizable American cars are the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro and Firebird. GM has a winner in the Corvette, they should spend their money and revamp and bring back either the Camaro or Firebird. The GTO and GTO Judge are recognized by true musclecar enthusiasts and are big dollar collectables. Most people know what a GTO is, they don't identify with it because they killed the name off in 74. If GM wanted to go after the BMW market with the Pontiac line they would have been better off using a number to name the new car ie: 346H.O. or 346H or something like that.

The reason to install a Paxton on a new Mustang is because that used to be an option on Shelby Mustangs, thought it would be retro to do one up like a modern Shelby.

Sorry for the rambling, and remember I never said the new GTO was a bad car it handles great and it has good acceleration, it just should'nt be called GTO, it will never be the Legend that the old cars were and still are.

judge_jury_executioner your avatar is funny. P*& on Imports. The new GTO is an import are you p&**ing on that as well.

If I just wanted to go fast I would buy a new Z06 or a CTS-V. The CTS-V is faster then a GTO and new Stang. Imagine that a 4 door Cadillac, fast with class. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks on the avatar. i agree with your post about 90%. i cant see the mustang handleing better with its solid rear axle. i also think that asking $35,000 for a new GTO is a bit on the high side. the performance isnt worth it. id be embarassed to buy a new GTO and have a couple 4 banger imports (in the same price range) hang rith with it if not beat it in acceleration,1/4,0-60,and in the skid pad. GM needs to do something about this. im surious what the sales figures are on the chevy cobalt. thats that da** import wanna be. id be sick if they are selling better then the GTO.

Mr_GTO · #**315** 02-13-2005, 06:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by
thanks on the avatar. i agree with your post about 90%. i cant see the mustang handleing better with its solid rear axle. i also think that asking $35,000 for a new GTO is a bit on the high side. the performance isnt worth it. id be embarassed to buy a new GTO and have a couple 4 banger imports (in the same price range) hang rith with it if not beat it in acceleration,1/4,0-60,and in the skid pad. GM needs to do something about this. im surious what the sales figures are on the chevy cobalt. thats that da** import wanna be. id be sick if they are selling better then the GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GTO is $34K new. Just a hand full of cars can go 13 flat at 107mph, get 26mpg. The top of the line Evo can match it but it doens't have the same torque as the LS2. It is lighter so it will handle better. The Cobalt can't compete with it and the cobalt SS will sell more than the GTO since it is $12K cheaper.

rabon008 · #**316** 02-13-2005, 09:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by
thanks on the avatar. i agree with your post about 90%. i cant see the mustang handleing better with its solid rear axle. i also think that asking $35,000 for a new GTO is a bit on the high side. the performance isnt worth it. id be embarassed to buy a new GTO and have a couple 4 banger imports (in the same price range) hang rith with it if not beat it in acceleration,1/4,0-60,and in the skid pad. GM needs to do something about this. im surious what the sales figures are on the chevy cobalt. thats that da** import wanna be. id be sick if they are selling better then the GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GTO is $34K new. Just a hand full of cars can go 13 flat at 107mph, get 26mpg. The top of the line Evo can match it but it doens't have the same torque as the LS2. It is lighter so it will handle better. The Cobalt can't compete with it and the cobalt SS will sell more than the GTO since it is $12K cheaper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree with you Mr_GTO. My '05 is <31K with my supplier discount, including window tint. What is the price of that top of the line (and 4 door) Evo?

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**317** 02-13-2005, 11:10 PM

dont get me wrong the new gto is a decent car. but i think that GM could have done better. its sad when imports in the same price range can hang with it. if gm is going to put more time and money into a cobalt that is a import wanna be then the GTO theres a problem.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**318** 02-13-2005, 11:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by
thanks on the avatar. i agree with your post about 90%. i cant see the mustang handleing better with its solid rear axle. i also think that asking $35,000 for a new GTO is a bit on the high side. the performance isnt worth it. id be embarassed to buy a new GTO and have a couple 4 banger imports (in the same price range) hang rith with it if not beat it in acceleration,1/4,0-60,and in the skid pad. GM needs to do something about this. im surious what the sales figures are on the chevy cobalt. thats that da** import wanna be. id be sick if they are selling better then the GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GTO is $34K new. Just a hand full of cars can go 13 flat at 107mph, get 26mpg. The top of the line Evo can match it but it doens't have the same torque as the LS2. It is lighter so it will handle better. The Cobalt can't compete with it and the cobalt SS will sell more than the GTO since it is $12K cheaper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think the EVO will handle better because its a AWD car. i know the cobalt SS cant compete as far as performance i was curious on the sales end of it. its sad when someone will pick a import wanna be over a V8 muscle car.

Mr_GTO · #**319** 02-14-2005, 03:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
dont get me wrong the new gto is a decent car. but i think that GM could have done better. its sad when imports in the same price range can hang with it. if gm is going to put more time and money into a cobalt that is a import wanna be then the GTO theres a problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

would you please just shut up now. You don't have a clue, you've NEVER had a clue about anything you are talkinag bout. I know you are a young kid but damn boy go take a business class would you?

It isn't sad, it is the way of life these days. The old GTO wasn't ever all that fast compared to the Mopars or Buicks or the heavy duty Chevies, but today the Corvette then the GTO run the streets for GM. Other companies just stick high HP AWD systems in their cheap ass cars and they have winners. But I will tell you, Mitsubishi might not be around in 5 years and GM owns part of Subie, so be happy there is competition.

The cobalt is not in the same class as the GTO or Evo. THe sooner you learn that the better off you'll be.

3 Deuce 64 · #**320** 02-14-2005, 09:48 AM

Hi Well I have seen the 05s and they will pass better as a GTO the mustang may look like a mustang but it also fits like one . The new car Pontiac called the GTO has a very user friendly and much nicer interior than the stangs .