[cgeise]

to date it is my understanding that Edelbrock has discontinued them

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by cgeise

to date it is my understanding that Edelbrock has discontinued them

Good ol' Edelbrock caring about us Pontiac racers again!!


GTO George

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Good ol' Edelbrock caring about us Pontiac racers again!!


GTO George

Maybe they wanted to give the other guys a chance to catch up! lol

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Maybe they wanted to give the other guys a chance to catch up! lol

.........or maybe they just never cared about us Pontiac racers!

Quickest Pontiac.......Warp 6 heads
Quickest Pontiac bodied car.......RA5 headsm
Quickest Pontiac door car NA........Warp 6

Yep you're right everyone else has to catch up. LOL!



GTO George

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

.........or maybe they just never cared about us Pontiac racers!

Quickest Pontiac.......Warp 6 heads
Quickest Pontiac bodied car.......RA5 headsm
Quickest Pontiac door car NA........Warp 6

Yep you're right everyone else has to catch up. LOL!



GTO George

Performer RPM Edelbrock head, the most powerful Pontiac cylinder head in the universe!

[Aaron Quinton]

Don't forget about chief and the crowmod. It runs!

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

.........or maybe they just never cared about us Pontiac racers!

Quickest Pontiac.......Warp 6 heads
Quickest Pontiac bodied car.......RA5 headsm
Quickest Pontiac door car NA........Warp 6

Yep you're right everyone else has to catch up. LOL!



GTO George

[John Langer]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Good ol' Edelbrock caring about us Pontiac racers again!!


GTO George

Maybe us Pontiac racers not caring about edelbrock. They stopped making them because they weren't selling any. Forget about making a small profit on them, they didn't come anywhere close to breaking even.

[Aaron Quinton]

Originally Posted by John Langer

Maybe us Pontiac racers not caring about edelbrock. They stopped making them because they weren't selling any. Forget about making a small profit on them, they didn't come anywhere close to breaking even.

^^^^^^truth^^^^^^

[cgeise]

Edelbrock made a huge mistake -- IMO , by not offering the head in a finished version, It didn't need to be a out of the box comp eliminator head - but a good head with maybe 440cfm intake that pulled hard on the track would have been killer.

[Aaron Quinton]

Curt you're right. It was a huge miss based on the market. The guys willing to carve out their own ports for a Pontiac are less than 10 units I'd guess. Marcella did a great job on his. If someone would have offered a good CNC program that offered a cost effective head then it could have worked. I think Edelbrock completely missed the market here.

[mgarblik]

I too was a bit puzzled with the pro-port offerings. It was just too raw for anyone other than a shop with 5-axis capability and a really good cylinder head guy to work with it. As is often the case in our tiny hobby, we are talking about 8-12 people in the country who have the knowledge, capability and interest in a project like that. So there they sat on the shelf for years, unsold. Edelbrock has wonderful casting capability, in house HIP processing and talented engineers like Rick Roberts who does genuinely like Pontiac engines. But as others have said, they missed the market in numerous ways. The heads were 6-10 years too late. The heads were too rough as sold. Other smaller producers stepped-up like All Pontiac and KRE, DCI and others to fill the void. The cost of designing and building your own billet heads is not as totally out of reach as it was 10 years ago when few 5 axis machines were out there. Kinda like "new Coke", it really missed the mark.

[Aaron Quinton]

Dude, your experience and feedback on this board means a lot. I appreciate you sharing your experience so we all can get better. Thanks.

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I too was a bit puzzled with the pro-port offerings. It was just too raw for anyone other than a shop with 5-axis capability and a really good cylinder head guy to work with it. As is often the case in our tiny hobby, we are talking about 8-12 people in the country who have the knowledge, capability and interest in a project like that. So there they sat on the shelf for years, unsold. Edelbrock has wonderful casting capability, in house HIP processing and talented engineers like Rick Roberts who does genuinely like Pontiac engines. But as others have said, they missed the market in numerous ways. The heads were 6-10 years too late. The heads were too rough as sold. Other smaller producers stepped-up like All Pontiac and KRE, DCI and others to fill the void. The cost of designing and building your own billet heads is not as totally out of reach as it was 10 years ago when few 5 axis machines were out there. Kinda like "new Coke", it really missed the mark.

[mgarblik]

Appreciate the kind words but I should say my post was just my opinion. Not based on experience with these heads. I looked them over carefully at PRI several times. I talked to Rick Roberts over a couple of years about what he expected the heads to do for the Pontiac world. He said he fully expected several Pontiac specialty shops with 5-axis capability to produce a variety of race ports for various applications. Then a customer would buy the heads and go to their favorite Pontiac builder that had the software for the port they wanted, and they would build a set of heads for them, kind of like the Chevy world. It just didn't happen for a variety of reasons, market saturation being a major reason. Again, just my opinion. Wonder how many sets they actually poured? Or sold?

[dci]

I spent allot of time doing R&D with that head and actually got some pretty good results without welding it. The only problem was that it wasn't any better than or as good as the Tigers. Edelbrock tried really hard to get my port configuration so they could duplicate it, but it didn't go anywhere. I had a nice bracket race version that flowed a little over 400 cfm with a 2.300 intake valve. The problem was for the amount of effort and expense to duplicate it for such a limited number of buyers it wasn't worth it. Like Mike stated it had to be cnc machined to reproduce it for a reasonable amount and even then it was outside of most guy's price range. Edelbrock is into the numbers not bragging rights. They can sell 300 times more of their RPM heads and not have the grief. They are smarter than me LOL. I want the biggest and baddest. They want to sell a 1,000 copies a year. I think they are on to something !!!!

[Jim Robertson]

Anyone have a set of the 11 deg heads they want to unload? Prefer new in the box but will consider all. What is out there?

[bryansMtngto]

definitly looks like plug position is alittle different between the E head and the Pro Port IMO. I see what Bruce is worried about. Will have to wait and see what the guys that have them say as they get them finished up. 1st pic is an E head 2nd is the pro port from below.looks like the moved it deeper into the head which is putting it closer the the exhaust valve.

[cfmcnc]

The plug angle creates a little bit of a delusion as the totally flat deck shows the plug very exh,bias consider the angle its drilled at when the chamber is finished machined it will exit into the chamber further away from what the picture shows.Bill C.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by cfmcnc

The plug angle creates a little bit of a delusion as the totally flat deck shows the plug very exh,bias consider the angle its drilled at when the chamber is finished machined it will exit into the chamber further away from what the picture shows.Bill C.

Thanks Bill, Hopefully it will exit closer to center chamber but the thread path shown in jims pics makes it appear it could still end up far closer to the exhaust than center chamber. The closer that ground strap gets to the exhaust valve the hotter it is going to get.

Maybe it will simply require a short reach plug to make it safer once all is done.

The link I posted earlier has pics in the pdf file from the Ford catalog not as clear as jims but you can see the chamber/plug location on the dual quench castings are more biased to center chamber exit. Sure there is more than one good reason they chose that way.

[Daniel Barton]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

True Dan, it was an un-needed sarcastic humor remark to someones un-needed comment about the "right" people. Doesnt mean I'd rather not have felt compelled to deliver it. I really DO prefer to keep the politics out of technical discussion.

So back to topic... Is this plug location what it appears to be? Will it be a non issue, something to be aware of when finalizing the chamber? Am I having optical delusions?
I dont think KRE's or CV's plug placement is quite the same. Seems they are more centrally located and bias the tip toward the exhaust(ok) but still put the tip further away from the heat of the exhaust path(IMO better). Standard E heads arent dual quench like these. Wouldnt want someones plug groundstrap turning into a glow plug.

First off no, I dont think the plug is going to be where you think it is, keep in mind that the plug hole is at an angle and once the chamber is done it will probably be a half to three quarters of an inch up that hole where the plug will be peeking out, I really had no intention of commenting on the plug location until I have the casting in my hands but it appears you are choosing to make a big stink out of this before anyone seems to have gotten that far along with this head casting. I think when people are farther along with this thing, at least as far as having the chamber roughed in, would be the time to bring this up, normally when I have done a head like this with no chamber in it they also dont have a plug hole located and we have done that last trying to get it as close to the center as possible. Im glad that people have decided to continue posting in this thread because it appeared to have been killed for a day or so... I really dont intend to comment anymore about this casting until I have had a chance to get it and spend some time with it.

[GREATGTO]

Originally Posted by Daniel Barton

First off no, I dont think the plug is going to be where you think it is, keep in mind that the plug hole is at an angle and once the chamber is done it will probably be a half to three quarters of an inch up that hole where the plug will be peeking out, I really had no intention of commenting on the plug location until I have the casting in my hands but it appears you are choosing to make a big stink out of this before anyone seems to have gotten that far along with this head casting. I think when people are farther along with this thing, at least as far as having the chamber roughed in, would be the time to bring this up, normally when I have done a head like this with no chamber in it they also dont have a plug hole located and we have done that last trying to get it as close to the center as possible. Im glad that people have decided to continue posting in this thread because it appeared to have been killed for a day or so... I really dont intend to comment anymore about this casting until I have had a chance to get it and spend some time with it.

Looks like you were wrong "Mr pro" based on Calvins pic no? I know you said you dont usually comment on a head before you have it but you let a knuckle dragger like Bruce see something you should be able to see I would think?

Ps I call Bruce a knuckle dragger with love! lol