[PONTIAC DUDE]

Steve.Why Bash P.E.?????????
The other Pontiac mag also promotes the "Newer" generation of Pontiacs too!!!!!!!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
So your not going to read either Publication?

Steve, what about the Pontiacs produced in Canada with Chevy power in the 60's? Including the 409.
What would you call those cars produced. They can't race either I suppose? Not slamming just wondering.

We are Dinosaurs, period. They are never going to re-produce Pure Pontiac power again for public consumption. Just not feasible with today's Goverment control and the the Environmentalists.



So you have to promote what sells, even if it's not pure, but still Pontiac.

The last "PURE" Pontiac was 1979.....I don't consider a 301 a Performance option. LOL.

You can only talk about Factory 14 second GTO's and Firebirds for so many years and then........... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

We are Sorta like the FlatHead Ford dude's in the 70's, but now it's 2002. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Let's look down the road in the year 2525........

Ten people left with the last existing Pure Pontiac blocks and heads in the country........afraid to use them as they can't be replaced.
but boy can they talk about "Back in the Day." [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.
http://PontiacDude.cc

[This message was edited by PONTIAC DUDE on December 24, 2002 at 02:00 PM.]

[Steve Barcak]

Dude,
I am not bashing PE. I have met some very nice people that work there. Unfortunately, they are not the ones who make the decisions. I know that HPP also runs stuff on late models. That is not the issue. Perhaps you did not understand my post. The point is that PE refuses to run stories about a vintage Pontiac only event. The other point is that they do not want you to know that. HPP does not have that policy. Is that better stated and more clear? I am only stating facts, not speading crap. Your other question concerning Canadian Pontiacs with chev engines no, they are not allowed. Only Real Pontiac powered vehicles. I have now rented the track for a second day and this second day is for all 1981 and older American vehicles and engine swaps are OK.
This is not intended to be a heated talk. I wish to make friends here and add to the forum. I am comfortable with other Real Pontiac people and I enjoy reading other posts too. I realize that most of you are probably not as hard core as I am and that is fine. Please don't take that last line the wrong way, I just live and breath old Pontiacs, it is my life.
Dude, if you have other questions and interest about the future of vintage Pontiacs and me, I invite you to see my site. I have seen yours and I like it, it is very good. There is info about my bottom end on there too. I have dedicated a portion of my life and put off racing to establish Pontiac Heaven. Pontiacs here do not rust and I bought land and zoning to store old Pontiacs to keep them from being crushed. I have personally saved about 500 so far in the last 8 years. It is a start. I love this hobby and I will do what I can to preswerve it for decades and generations to come. They will always be cool. Between people like me and the repro industry, vintage Pontiacs will be around for a loooong time. AMEN.
Merry Christmas to all my Pontiac friends (present and future).

[This message was edited by Steve Barcak on December 24, 2002 at 06:41 PM.]

[This message was edited by Steve Barcak on December 24, 2002 at 06:43 PM.]

[Rob]

Jim Yanoski = Hard Core Pontiac Enthusiast

Pontiac Brand Loyality for me came from the cars I bought as I grew up. For me, those were Firebirds and TransAms and those were the last to hold the Big Torque 455 cid engines. They evolved from earlier Pontiac engines and I'm pretty sure the biggest family of pontiacs with very similar dimensions. Here's my list of those that fit the Traditional Pontiac Engine

195, 287, 316, 326, 347, 350, 389, 400, 421, 428, 455, Indian Adventures.


For me the half 389 4cyl and Indian Adventures aftermarket fit the definiton, there may some more that I missed that should be included, but this group all share a very similar design on spacing a placement.

They are the basis for "Aftermarket Pontiac"

Deeper Brand Loyality comes from that history, same with the SBC/BBC, SBF/BBF, and Chrysler stuff. NASCAR and NHRA Pontiac stuff will always be in a pickle because they are neither and both and have the defintion of Corporate. I imagine all the different Corporations that buy out good companies have the same problem of loosing the vision, direction, and reason a product had a value and purpose in the first place.

Corporate Pontiac unfortunately fits in the family of Short Run Racing parts and gets grouped with Arias Engine Blocks, PSI Superchargers, Mountain Fords, things you find at Bonneville Salt Flats, Crazy home made Blocks, and heads that aren't accepted kinda a lost group with small amount of people that even know they exist.

I like the New TA shaker Ken's making, I used to have a holley jammed up in the stock one.

New Cometic AFTERMARKET PONTIAC head Gaskets in 4 Days!

-Rob

[Trev]

I think we have to accept that the 'Real' Pontiac died back in the 70s. Lets face it, it's time was up. The industry went global. We are lucky that most of the American brands remaining can still be considered 'American'. I am a Brit. (Been in the US 10 years and into Pontiacs for 25 years). Think about how we feel about our own Auto Industry. Ford owns Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar. Volkswagon and BMW fought over Rolls Royce and Bently. I believe Lotus is still owned by Kia. Rover Group was bought by BMW who now make the new Mini. If I want a real British car, I can buy a Morgan (no thanks) or a TVR (Definitely) I am happy to be involved with vehicles and engines that you cannot buy from the OEM anymore. It makes the hobby more interesting to me, and makes the history more important.
As far as the Hobby Magazine stuff goes. I believe that as more interest in the traditional Pontiac is generated in the aftermarket, and more dedicated enthusiasts get involved, the split between Traditional and Corporate will become greater. This will naturally filter down to the magazines and Pontiac only events. Certainly, PE is wasting its breath preaching about GMC trucks, new Grand Prixs etc. as I won't subscribe to that magazine for that reason. Instead, I pick it up off the news stand to see if it has enough content to interest me, and buy it on an issue by issue basis. Or not as the case may be.

[Trev]

Oh, By the way. I think this should have been posted in the Lobby.

[7072]

Steve,
I agree with you 100% and would like to say thank you for all your hard work and dedication to preserve the real Pontiac.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Thanks, Steve.
Not trying to stir either, was just curious.
Hummmmmmmmmm. Guess I need to ask the Powers that be about that too!!

What no 10" tire Heads-up classes in April? LOL. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Maybe you could get Brucie, Baby to show up so I could bring th T/A west for a Money match race? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
Arizona is closer to California then it is to Florida. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] But would make the trip for that deal. LOL.

Anyway. Nice site and maybe? ....have to check the schedule........... and money. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.
http://PontiacDude.cc

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Here's my list of those that fit the Traditional Pontiac Engine

195, 287, 316, 326, 347, 350, 389, 400, 421, 428, 455, Indian Adventures."

Boy am I hurt! No mention of the 303 or the 366
motors anywhere. As much a Pontiac as any IA Engine. JMHO Tom V.

[Rob]

They're in, as is that Aluminum block I've only seen pictures of, Love those pontiac racing parts.

-Rob

[Tom Vaught]

Rob, I personally have 15 366 cranks, several 303
cranks, and have worked on at least 5 366 engines.
The factory originally built enough parts for about 250 engines so there are enough parts to justify mentioning them vs a one off (set of 5)
aluminum block deal. Tom V.

ps I would bet money that Dick has cast less than 100 IA blocks so far and maybe less than 75.

[tempest455]

Without naming names, one of the "contributing editors" of PE lives within a mile from me and I know him personally (more of an acquaintance). Without being too judgmental or criticizing, I have some issues with his editorial participation with the mag. He does not own a car (Pontiac, classic etc. or appear to work on cars at all) and yet contributes for the mag. I'm not saying you have to own a classic Pontiac to be a good writer but I sure think it helps. I was especially offended when he wrote an article last year called, "The All American Pontiac". The following is my E-mail to him about the article:

"I just finished reading the "All American Pontiac", Dan Gurney story in the latest issue of Pontiac Enthusiast. As usual, nice job and very well written. As an avid Pontiac enthusiast, I thought I would mention a few things.

The mere suggestion that Brodix heads or 355 small block parts are "Pontiac" to true Pontiac aficionados, will send Pontiac people into a frenzy. While Pontiac may have assisted development of the Brodix SBC and BBC heads, they are entirely 100% Chevy. They will not bolt up to or cannot be used with traditional (meaning pre 1980) Pontiac engines. This has been a sore point with Pontiac aficionados for years. The old Pro Stock "Pontiac" heads are BBC heads designed with the assistance of Pontiac and Warren Johnson. The same applies for the BBC Olds or DRCE head.

Additionally, if you attend some of the national Pontiac events, the cars that run in the Q-16 (quick sixteen) are only allowed traditional Pontiac power. "Pontiac" head Chevy or corporate motors are not allowed.

Just an FYI. I thought I would point this out.
We Pontiac aficionados get pretty touchy when it comes to this subject.

Take care,

Eric D."

I wrote this E mail over a year ago and I was speaking from memory on some of the BBC stuff so don't hold me to specifics but you get the idea. This was the response and why I let my subscription lapse over a year ago.

"Yes, I know it's a stretch to call that engine a Pontiac, any more than an LT1 in a late-model T/A is a Pontiac, or the engine in Richard Petty's 1984 Grand Prix was a Pontiac. But Gurney did put the Pontiac name into the Indy 500 history books, which is more than any one else did (even Mickey Thompson). Also, if I remember right, the "Pontiac" Brodex heads were superior to anything that said "Chevrolet" at the time (to the point of being banned from NASCAR). By the way, last time I went to see the Midgets run at Angell Park in Sun Prairie, many of the cars ran Iron Dukes with the Brodex heads. It may be a Chevy, but like the F-Body cars, Pontiac made it better."

[Tom Vaught]

Eric D,

Great Post.

Quote:

"Also, if I remember right, the "Pontiac" Brodex heads were superior to anything that said "Chevrolet" at the time (to the point of being banned from NASCAR). By the way, last time I went to see the Midgets run at Angell Park in Sun Prairie, many of the cars ran Iron Dukes with the Brodex heads. It may be a Chevy, but like the F-Body cars, Pontiac made it better."

My comments about the Brodex heads were not to "wind Steve up". Pontiac had already lost the
V-8 motor battle. My point was they did not roll
over and die. They went out and kicked Chevrolets
butt using Chebby spec parts too. I think most people call that better engineering.

In Steve's case, I think he wants the enjoyment of kicking their butts with a traditional engine
which is fine but will make him a big fish in a
small pond like Marty Palbykins TT GTO was. We
were all very proud of Marty and what he did but
at the time he was breaking into the 6s the PRO
MOD guys had to run 6.50 or faster just to make the field. Marty did not have the support, even though he had a tremendous desire to ever run
competively against the front runner cars in PRO
MOD. I personally do not see the support for Steve's deal either. Steve will possibly win
on a local basis but will never be competitive
with the current equipment in the class he wants to run in.

Jimmy Keen and Elias D. spent hundreds of thousands of dollars over several years to win
National championships with lots of sponsors. We
have NO traditional Pontiac team with those resources or sponsors. Probably never will either.

Tom V.

[Brian Baker]

Regarding those Pontiac Brodix heads, I remember all of the Chevrolet NASCAR teams switching to those heads because they performed better. NASCAR got involved probably because some of the Pontiac teams complained that it wasn't a "Chevy" powerplant under the hood of those Chevrolet cars. NASCAR banned the Chevrolet teams from using the heads, and they screamed "no fair" that the Pontiac teams can still use them. You know what happened next.

[Steve Barcak]

Hello All out there.
Another long post but, good informative reading for the real Pontiac person.
Happy New Year everybody! I see some posts here worth commenting on and are also worth adding to this topic so, here goes.
*Jim Yanoski, thank you for your post here dated 12-23 (and wishing me well on my events) but, respectfully, how can you be described as a “hard core Pontiac man” when you also state in the same post that “ they are not for me at this time?” This is unclear and potentially misleading. Please explain, I am not being critical, I just don‘t know you. I would not describe myself as a Pontiac man if I also said it wasn‘t meant for me at this time.
* On Pontiac engine sizes, others have been overlooked; namely the ‘58 370 (4.06” bore and 3.625” stroke) with a forged crank and overbore capability. This engine could be a real animal. Also, like it or not the 301 -265 is a Real Pontiac. How could you say otherwise, because the deck is shorter and it has siamese ports? Well, the 50’s Pontiac had siamese ports too, just on the exhaust side. They use the same tooling and the same dimensions for the most part- distributor, ign system, valve covers, t-cover, oil, water and fuel pumps, motor mounts, bell housing pattern, head bolt pattern (even an Ram Air V and M/T HEMI head fits) camshaft, the Pontiac engineers did a good job keeping the design alive during trying times in the US auto industry. I wish the turbo set up would have been more successful, it would have benefited us all and maybe kept the motor in production. It could be brought back but, I don‘t see that happening. They are production engines, not performance engines but, still Pontiacs. Finally, the GMC trucks that used Pontiac V-8s in the 50’s. Many had a small bore version of the car Pontiac engine for the given year. I think the ‘57 version was a 336. Who else knows about this? Few do. What other sizes were there. That is also a trivia question on my web site.
*I have received many emails on this “Real Pontiac” topic and all were positive as were most posts here. Thank you all for that When you take a stand on something, no matter what it is, you put yourself in a position of being “loved or hated“ so to speak, one side of the fence or the other. That is not a problem on this topic for me as the Real Pontiac is my favorite subject. There are a LOT of great Pontiac people here on this site and I think that is terrific.
* The PE issue. I just wanted to let people know the truth on how I was treated about getting the word out on my events in the west and how they refused to cover my event because I proudly do not allow cheby power there. Perhaps if subscribers and advertisers (my advertising dollars have now gone to their competitor) were in the know about this issue, the people at PE would change their position on Real Pontiacs and support them better. You may also, want to email them with your feelings. That is all. I’m not a bad mouther, PE has had some great articles in the past years but, they are not fair in covering all aspects of Pontiac activities. And they are not Pro Real Pontiac.
* Toms post on me is his opinion. It is not factual, he does not know me personally and is in no position to know my resources or my capabilities. He states I will never be competitive to run in that class with what I have. Tom, who are you to say anything on this and about me? Tell us all here what you know about nostalgia Top Fuel and why I will not be competitive. You are far from an authority on the subject. Also, I question if you/he knows anything about the class I will be running in (I realize that N Top Fuel is not a regular Pontiac topic). As far as you not seeing “support for me” please explain what you are talking about. If it is sponsorship or financial support, I can assure that that is not a problem. I am capable of running my own car on my own and have put it together the same way. I do have help and very good help at that when needed. Time will tell how well it does, nothing is guaranteed. This is especially true when you are doing something that has not been done before, set backs will happen, parts attrition is part of the game and has to be accepted too. But, everybody who breaks through with an unusual combination has to do the same thing. It will be very rewarding and Pontiacs will be respected, again, in the faster classes.
* On comparing me to Marty’s deal. I do not know Marty personally, I did speak to him briefly at Joliet in 2000 and was surprised to see him have a blown chevy in his car. Tom states that Marty tried very hard to compete with a Real Pontiac in Pro Mod. Again this is someone speaking about someone else so it can be potentially hearsay but, if that is true, let’s look at the facts. First, my info may not be correct, I only know what I have read. If anyone here can update my info on Marty‘s combo, please do so here.
Now, if you want to build a fast bracket car, that is fine. To build a fast Pontiac, whether it be a 10, 9, 8, 7 or even a 6 second car takes a lot of work, money, determination and ability. I applaud everyone who has done it and also encourage anyone to do it. But, it is a totally different subject to build a fast Pontiac to compete with other makes in a class with rules (restrictions). In a bracket deal, no matter how fast or slow you are, you can dial up or down or be on an index, this is the same way in NHRA stock and super stock too. It doesn’t matter how fast you go (assuming you stay in a particular bracket). When building a car to compete in a class against other makes you have to determine what combo will be competitive or you are wasting your money and time. It cannot be over stated that building a car to compete in a class is a much more difficult task than building a fast bracket car. Certain combinations are hopeless, as others are more than appealing. You cannot change your dial if you are not running good. It is you against the other guy in the other lane, heads up. There are no handicaps for either. Also, you will have to determine what kind of money, development time and actual track time you will need to be competitive (including spare parts, supplies, etc). It may take a lot of time to sort out a combination too, it is not for the weak at heart. Especially in the faster classes, the commitment can be staggering.
I am not an authority on Pro Mod, but I have followed it in the mags. The displacement rules are 527 inches blown alky or 711 or so inches with N2O on race gas. Now, I again applaud Marty for his accomplishments but, why would he build a car with turbos and 400 or so inches? Why would he go to all that trouble and expense and still use a 400thm? To try to run an engine that small with turbos and an automatic in a class with cars that run 100 or more inches with big blowers and with clutches and Lencos would seem foolish regardless of the brand engine you choose. Again, I don’t know if he was serious about running that combo against the other cars in that class or just wanted the Pro Mod “look”. Either way, that car is quite an accomplishment and something to be proud of but, Not a serious combination for that class. How many other pro Mod cars use a 400 thm? How many use turbos? When Marty switched to cheby power (again, the issue of a Real Pontiac fan?), was he competitive then? Did he keep the 400thm? If he is such a "turbo nut", so to speak, why did he use a roots on the cheby? Things here with him are not consistant.
The current Pontiac turbo “craze” is fine. I know the story, turbos are efficient but, against a roots blown car on alky? Turbos have had limited success in drag racing.
Nostalgia Top Fuel is another story. Most cars are around 390-410 inches and have to use a 6-71 blower. The 392 Chrysler/417 Donovan, with its 10 head bolts, is dominant. Some of those cars run iron 1956 vintage 354 HEMI heads and run 6.0s. Some are in the 5.90s and 5.80s. One small chev (well , it is sort of a small chev) has gone as quick as 5.85. The big block cheby, with its canted valves is not dominant and has not ever been so. There are a few who are competitive and some have gone in the 5.90’s but not many. This class, given the rules, would appear that a Real Pontiac could be developed to run competitively in this class. Remember that Mickey Thompson went 406 MPH in 1960 with ‘59 Pontiac engines. To my knowledge, even to this day, a cheby has yet to go faster. Mickey did this on a light load of only 40% too. How about the ‘62 US Nationals? The M/T Pontiac strapped it to Garlits and every one else and won top eliminator. This could continue. The Pontiac lost its popularity due to costs and availability not because of its design. The Pontiac has more in it that most are aware of.
Now with my fueler about done (all that is left is to install the Racepak data logger) with its first engine, I will continue prepping and developing the alum Pontiac HEMIs that will follow and have started on a way cool ’65 Tempest altered wheel base nostalgia Funny car with a Blown, Lenco shifted Pontiac between the fenders! A chrome moly tube ‘66 GTO will follow as will my ‘68 Firebird funny car. More? www.pontiacheaven.org REAL PONTIACS RULE!!!!!!!.
I wish every one here a safe happy New Year and put away as many chebys as you are able to! See you in April too. Oh, yes, I also welcome Tempest slant 4s, OHC 6s and pre-’55 Flathead. If anyone wants to attend and is not familiar with the Phoenix area, contact me directly for any help I can give you. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org

[This message was edited by Steve Barcak on January 01, 2003 at 04:57 PM.]

[This message was edited by Steve Barcak on January 01, 2003 at 05:05 PM.]

[Goatman]

"The current Pontiac turbo “craze” is fine. I know the story, turbos are efficient but, against a roots blown car on alky? Turbos have had limited success in drag racing."


You need to catch up to the rest of the world. You're about 15 years behind.

Tom is correct, to compete in a class that everyone CARES about, it would be the fastest street car scene. The fastest growing part of the hobby. Tom has more experience in that arena that ANYONE on this BB, as he's had two WORLD CHAMPION cars that he's had a hand in.

Yeah, you can run 6's in a 1500lb dragster. BFD. Do it in a 2900lb car, with a body, like MArty or Rodney is doing, then you'll see something amazing.

One question: Who are you to question who is a real "pontiac guy" or not? Someone die and put you in charge.......

I've been following this post for a while and I just don't get it. If you don't like Chevies in Pontiacs, that's your business. Pontiac has been doing it, with, or without you since 1982. Get over it.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[Tom Vaught]

This last post was so long that you need to break it up into pieces..

Quote:

"Hello All out there.
Another long post but, good informative reading for the real Pontiac person.
Happy New Year everybody! I see some posts here worth commenting on and are also worth adding to this topic so, here goes.
*Jim Yanoski, thank you for your post here dated 12-23 (and wishing me well on my events) but, respectfully, how can you be described as a “hard core Pontiac man” when you also state in the same post that “ they are not for me at this time?” This is unclear and potentially misleading. Please explain, I am not being critical, I just don‘t know you. I would not describe myself as a Pontiac man if I also said it wasn‘t meant for me at this time."

I like this part of the post as here is where Steve tells the rest of the world including Jim Y
that they arn't *****.

Jim can't make it to your event so now he is not a REAL pontiac man. Nice technique getting other
Almost REAL Pontiac people to show up at your
event. Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

Post number 2

Quote:

"* On Pontiac engine sizes, others have been overlooked; namely the ‘58 370 (4.06” bore and 3.625” stroke) with a forged crank and overbore capability. This engine could be a real animal. Also, like it or not the 301 -265 is a Real Pontiac. How could you say otherwise, because the deck is shorter and it has siamese ports? Well, the 50’s Pontiac had siamese ports too, just on the exhaust side. They use the same tooling and the same dimensions for the most part- distributor, ign system, valve covers, t-cover, oil, water and fuel pumps, motor mounts, bell housing pattern, head bolt pattern (even an Ram Air V and M/T HEMI head fits) camshaft, the Pontiac engineers did a good job keeping the design alive during trying times in the US auto industry. I wish the turbo set up would have been more successful, it would have benefited us all and maybe kept the motor in production. It could be brought back but, I don‘t see that happening. They are production engines, not performance engines but, still Pontiacs. Finally, the GMC trucks that used Pontiac V-8s in the 50’s. Many had a small bore version of the car Pontiac engine for the given year. I think the ‘57 version was a 336. Who else knows about this? Few do. What other sizes were there. That is also a trivia question on my web site."

Overall an informative post. I learned about the
336 Pontiac GMC engine. Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

Post #3

Quote:

"*I have received many emails on this “Real Pontiac” topic and all were positive as were most posts here. Thank you all for that When you take a stand on something, no matter what it is, you put yourself in a position of being “loved or hated“ so to speak, one side of the fence or the other. That is not a problem on this topic for me as the Real Pontiac is my favorite subject. There are a LOT of great Pontiac people here on this site and I think that is terrific.

I agree totally with the great people on the PY
site.


Quote:

"* The PE issue. I just wanted to let people know the truth on how I was treated about getting the word out on my events in the west and how they refused to cover my event because I proudly do not allow cheby power there. Perhaps if subscribers and advertisers (my advertising dollars have now gone to their competitor) were in the know about this issue, the people at PE would change their position on Real Pontiacs and support them better. You may also, want to email them with your feelings. That is all. I’m not a bad mouther, PE has had some great articles in the past years but, they are not fair in covering all aspects of Pontiac activities. And they are not Pro Real Pontiac.

Steve, It is WANGERS magazine and he can decide
what he wants to publish. If he doesn't want to
cover your event so be it. If he wants to cover a
wide spectrum of old and new pontiacs (with the
corporate engine) that is his choice, not yours.
NOT FAIR is YOUR opinion. Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

Post 4

Quote:

"* Toms post on me is his opinion.

That is my right just like YOUR opinion of PE and their advertising of events.

Quote:

"It is not factual, he does not know me personally and is in no position to know my resources or my capabilities. He states I will never be competitive to run in that class with what I have.

People said the same thing about Marty running
over 1000 hp and 6s. Show me you can do it. Marty
did. Right now you are just talk. I see nothing on
paper (facts) that says you are competitive. NO
TIME SLIPS!

Quote:

" Tom, who are you to say anything on this and about me? Tell us all here what you know about nostalgia Top Fuel and why I will not be competitive. You are far from an authority on the subject. Also, I question if you/he knows anything about the class I will be running in (I realize that N Top Fuel is not a regular Pontiac topic).

Read above. Show me the performance not the talk
and I will change my opinion. Don't have to be an authority on EVERY class just have to compare the
record with your performance. SIMPLE!

Quote:

" As far as you not seeing “support for me” please explain what you are talking about. If it is sponsorship or financial support, I can assure that that is not a problem. I am capable of running my own car on my own and have put it together the same way. I do have help and very good help at that when needed. Time will tell how well it does, nothing is guaranteed.

Marty Palbykin had a VERY good job as a jet pilot
His wife Mary had a very good job too. He had an excellent chassis builder, a 4 time world champ
engine man with turbo experience, A dyno, and
friends. He was a very smart man. It was hard for him to run 6s with his car.

You own a Junk yard. Those old pontiacs must be really selling well.

Quote:

"This is especially true when you are doing something that has not been done before, set backs will happen, parts attrition is part of the game and has to be accepted too. But, everybody who breaks through with an unusual combination has to do the same thing. It will be very rewarding and Pontiacs will be respected, again, in the faster classes."

Saw the same issues with Marty's project. Arnie
and Marty have run 6s with full body cars. You
are going to run with a dragster. You better be
really fast after you ran Marty down.

Quote:

"* On comparing me to Marty’s deal. I do not know Marty personally, I did speak to him briefly at Joliet in 2000 and was surprised to see him have a blown chevy in his car. Tom states that Marty tried very hard to compete with a Real Pontiac in Pro Mod. Again this is someone speaking about someone else so it can be potentially hearsay but, if that is true, let’s look at the facts.

Now you are giving opinions. A lot of people know I worked on Marty's car. It was written up in PE when Marty thanked everyone on his team. Now you
call it heresay! KMA!

Quote:

"First, my info may not be correct, I only know what I have read. If anyone here can update my info on Marty‘s combo, please do so here."

I am sure people have links to Boyles site that had Marty's combination or Marty can post it again for everyone.

Quote:

"Now, if you want to build a fast bracket car, that is fine. To build a fast Pontiac, whether it be a 10, 9, 8, 7 or even a 6 second car takes a lot of work, money, determination and ability. I applaud everyone who has done it and also encourage anyone to do it. But, it is a totally different subject to build a fast Pontiac to compete with other makes in a class with rules (restrictions).

Marty's car was not a bracket car. He had one goal
6s times. He ran against Arnie in exibitions on
different occasions. (PRO TREE).

Quote:

" In a bracket deal, no matter how fast or slow you are, you can dial up or down or be on an index, this is the same way in NHRA stock and super stock too. It doesn’t matter how fast you go (assuming you stay in a particular bracket). When building a car to compete in a class against other makes you have to determine what combo will be competitive or you are wasting your money and time. It cannot be over stated that building a car to compete in a class is a much more difficult task than building a fast bracket car.

Why are you lecturing us on bracket cars now?


Quote:

"Certain combinations are hopeless, as others are more than appealing. You cannot change your dial if you are not running good. It is you against the other guy in the other lane, heads up. There are no handicaps for either. Also, you will have to determine what kind of money, development time and actual track time you will need to be competitive (including spare parts, supplies, etc). It may take a lot of time to sort out a combination too, it is not for the weak at heart. Especially in the faster classes, the commitment can be staggering.

More common sense info that all racer know or will eventually figure out. Still not talking about Marty's deal.

Quote:

"I am not an authority on Pro Mod, but I have followed it in the mags. The displacement rules are 527 inches blown alky or 711 or so inches with N2O on race gas. Now, I again applaud Marty for his accomplishments but, why would he build a car with turbos and 400 or so inches? Why would he go to all that trouble and expense and still use a 400thm?

He only ran the turbo 400 for a short period of time. If you did more investigation and ask a few people you would have known that he was running a
Chance converter, dual sprag brake, and a lenco for most of the years he raced the car.

Quote:

"To try to run an engine that small with turbos and an automatic in a class with cars that run 100 or more inches with big blowers and with clutches and Lencos would seem foolish regardless of the brand engine you choose.

Only fool here is you for your lack of homework.

Quote:

" Again, I don’t know if he was serious about running that combo against the other cars in that class or just wanted the Pro Mod “look”. Either way, that car is quite an accomplishment and something to be proud of but, Not a serious combination for that class."

If he was serious he would run a chebby like everyone else but then he would not be a REAL PONTIAC man. He changed to chebby and 14-71.

Quote:

" How many other pro Mod cars use a 400 thm? How many use turbos? When Marty switched to cheby power (again, the issue of a Real Pontiac fan?), was he competitive then? Did he keep the 400thm? If he is such a "turbo nut", so to speak, why did he use a roots on the cheby? Things here with him are not consistant.

Your info is not consistant. You have made MANY
errors so far in your post.

Quote:

"The current Pontiac turbo “craze” is fine. I know the story, turbos are efficient but, against a roots blown car on alky? Turbos have had limited success in drag racing.

The current record in most "Typical" classes is held by turbos. Super street, Outlaw, Pro Street)
These are classes the avarage person might have a chance to compete in without MAJOR corporate sponsorship.

Quote:

"Nostalgia Top Fuel is another story. Most cars are around 390-410 inches and have to use a 6-71 blower. The 392 Chrysler/417 Donovan, with its 10 head bolts, is dominant. Some of those cars run iron 1956 vintage 354 HEMI heads and run 6.0s. Some are in the 5.90s and 5.80s. One small chev (well , it is sort of a small chev) has gone as quick as 5.85. The big block cheby, with its canted valves is not dominant and has not ever been so. There are a few who are competitive and some have gone in the 5.90’s but not many. This class, given the rules, would appear that a Real Pontiac could be developed to run competitively in this class.

Here comes the Big fish in the small pond slot for Steve. If you know so much show Marty how
to run in PRO MOD. Not a Nostalgia class for worn
out engines.

Quote:

" Remember that Mickey Thompson went 406 MPH in 1960 with ‘59 Pontiac engines. To my knowledge, even to this day, a cheby has yet to go faster.

Get a Bonneville record book. Read it.

Quote:

"I wish every one here a safe happy New Year and put away as many chebys as you are able to! See you in April too. Oh, yes, I also welcome Tempest slant 4s, OHC 6s and pre-’55 Flathead. If anyone wants to attend and is not familiar with the Phoenix area, contact me directly for any help I can give you. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org

You have a Happy New Year and Take some time to do a little reading. Tom V.

[Ron]

I raced the Pontiac Heaven race last year and intend on doing it again this year. It is a fun event. In regards to PE covering an event I think that a number of things need to be taken into considertion. As far as a race goes the Pontiac Heaven race is a nice event but as far as events/races go it is a pimple on an elephants ass in size. Exactly why does anyone think that the Pontiac Heaven event warrants national coverage. It is a once a year race that draws only a few racers from mainly from the Phoenix area but others come from California, New Mexico, etc. Why do other events/races get better attendance, simply put it is because they allow all Pontiac cars to attend. Like it or not, the traditional Pontiac engine is no longer manufactured and in fact will never be manufactured again. The current designs of engines by General Motors are not Chevy engines, they in fact are corporate engines with no brand label attached.

Soooooo, if an event wants better magazine coverage and increased attendance then it would be better for everyone involved to open the event to all Pontiac cars. In fact why isn't the late model Grand Prix with the 3.8 engine allowed to participate?? That engine was originally designed and built by Pontiac so you see it is a traditional Pontiac engine. Also as Tom Vaught put it..it is Wangers magazine and he can do whatever he wants to do.

BTW, I have not seen another magazine cover the Pontiac Heaven event, EVER!!!! Since the Pontiac Heaven money is spent with magazines other than PE why then aren't they providing magazine articles and promotion of the event??

Ron