[giles]

Originally Posted by TA455HO

In the assembly manual under Wheels & Tires I.D. Codes it lists

The JW wheel was part number 482000

The KR wheel was part number 485454 - This one is listed as Firebird W/PM7

The KS wheel was part number 485455 - This one is listed as Firebird D/PM7 and although I've never seen one this is likely 14x7 instead of 15x7

The KN wheel is not listed on this page or on the web site. There are some handwritten notes next to the JW entry, but I cannot read them.

Then in the Optional Equipment N on Page 482785 it has an entry in the notes from 11/10/70 that indicates 485454 was 482000 (KR was JW).

And yet the parts book lists JW and KR as correct for 1970 through 1972. Again, no mention of KN under either of these two part numbers

Good catch on the KR = 485454. I misread the wheel ID for 485454 as "KN" not "KR". There appears to be no mention of KN as far as I can see, yet we know it is a valid '71 wheel.

[TA455HO]

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

I have a mixed set of KR's. Here's what I think I have, if I understand how to read them. I'm new to this. Please feel free to correct me, I really want to know how to do this.

2 ea. M1 07/21 (July 21st, 1971)

1 ea. M1 12/08 (Dec. 08th, 1971)

1 ea. M0 12/29 (Dec. 29th, 1970)

I'm at work now and not in front of a wheel, but there should be another number there, I think.

To one side of the valve stem you will observe a stamp that will appear like "M19" with the "9" below the "1". The "9" indicates the year 1969, a "0" would be 1970, etc. Between this stamp and the valve stem will be another number from "1" to "12" which will designate the month. On the other side of the valve stem will be a number between "1" and "31" designating the day, and beside that will be the wheel code "KR" or whatever code the wheel actually is.

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

Thing is, my cars build date is 0 9A, so I'm not really sure what date wheels are appropriate for my car. My engine and dated parts on it were made in July to mid August 1970.

Should the wheels be in that same time frame, or earlier, or much earlier? Hoping you guys can share some light on the subject. Thanks Eddie.

Your car sounds like it was built about the same time as mine (0 9B for my Norwood) and mine had the KN 7/28/70 wheels from the look of it. But, I'd think any wheel with a date no more than about 6 months before your build date would be OK. I'd avoid anything after your build date, which I think speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

Two more questions. Do all the JW,KN & KR wheels look the same? Same rare small center fabricated for a 15 x 7 rim like the 70 model?

That is correct. It's a 14" center mated to a 15" rim. Not sure if all KRs up through 1973 did look the same, but I believe so.

[68bird400HO]

All JW, KN, KR wheels looks the same. AFAIK, the last batch of KRs looked to be in spring '72 (it may have been the 2/72 date, not sure). For the '73 model year they developed a 15" center for the 15" rallys and the code again changed, to HM I believe.

['ol Pinion head]

KR's stamped 3/25/72 are the latest stamped KR's I've ever ran across & have been buying/sellng/trading for JW-KN-KRs for the last two decades. Have one 3/25/72 that has a GM parts distribution sticker on it its spine... sold over the counter as a service part. Have owned NOS JA's, JL's, & HM's with same sticker

My '72 T/A, built during last full week of '72 production (3/31/72), has 2/28/72 KR's on it. While the whole set is not original to the car (only 2 are), managed to come up with 5 that date matched the original two.

'71455HO, On a 09A built '71 Norwood car, 7/27 or 7/28 KN's would be correct. Other than 7/27 & 7/28's I've only owned one other date of KNs, they were stamped in August of '70. Believe Aug 13, but would need to dig in my old records.

The Fall of '70 UAW strike began Sept 14, 1970 & lasted 67 days. This strike shut down every GM asm plant & production of GM specific parts at its suppliers. As a result, the strike had a profound effect on the dating of parts used on late Nov, Dec, Jan, & even Feb assembled cars. It's interesting that over the last few years, parts have emerged that are dated slightly before the strike was settled. The 11/10/70 dated KR's & a pair of Canadian mfg 14x6 KU's (Paul K) I've examined, both point to rally wheels being stamped a good week before production resumed. BTW, not going to see this early startup with internal produced parts like blocks, heads, manifolds, waterpumps from GM Central Foundry.

As far as Van Nuys cars go, its become evident that Van Nuys still had a decent supply of JW's & used them well into the late winter of '70-71. Would be interesting to know how many '71 Van Nuys Formulas & T/A were built with 15" Rally wheels over honeycombs??? I bet the number is not that big with Norwood producing much higher amount of '71 T/A's & Formula's.

Have owned quite a few 12/29/70 & 12/30/70 KR's. Get a chance, will ck my warehouse for dates of JW's & KR's I have.

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

'71455HO, On a 09A built '71 Norwood car, 7/27 or 7/28 KN's would be correct. Other than 7/27 & 7/28's I've only owned one other date of KNs, they were stamped in August of '70. Believe Aug 13, but would need to dig in my old records.

Are KN's the only correct wheel for a 0 9A built Norwood car. Aug. 13th 1970 is also when my Intake was cast incidentally.

['ol Pinion head]

All the original intact early '71 Norwood cars, I've personally examined have had KN's. There may exist an extremely early production '71 Norwood car which had JW's, but have yet to document one. If the project was mine & it was destined to be a cutting edge concours resto, I'd search out a set of 7/27 or 7/28 KN's & an nos set of trim rings. Short of that level of resto, repro trim rings hide the stamped dates fairly well.


BTW, my '71 HO T-37 has the 8/13/70 intake & 483637 casting block. The T was built late Dec of '70.

[Chiefpontiac]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

I'd search out a set of 7/27 or 7/28 KN's & an nos set of trim rings. Short of that level of resto, repro trim rings hide the stamped dates fairly well.

Trim rings? I thought T/A's didn't use them.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by Chiefpontiac

Trim rings? I thought T/A's didn't use them.

Optional. But not many had them...

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

All the original intact early '71 Norwood cars, I've personally examined have had KN's. There may exist an extremely early production '71 Norwood car which had JW's, but have yet to document one. If the project was mine & it was destined to be a cutting edge concours resto, I'd search out a set of 7/27 or 7/28 KN's & an nos set of trim rings. Short of that level of resto, repro trim rings hide the stamped dates fairly well.


BTW, my '71 HO T-37 has the 8/13/70 intake & 483637 casting block. The T was built late Dec of '70.

Thanks for all the information 'ol Pinion head. This is very interesting stuff to me. Did somebody say they were going to compile all of this info / data and make it available to everybody. That would be great. Thanks to whoever you are. I know it's a lot of work to study and sort through all the post and decipher what's a fact and what is not. I feel lucky that those of you that have been at this a while are here saving guys like me a lot of heartaches down the road. Thanks a lot guys, I'm grateful.

My car has the 483637 block also, and I do have an NOS set of trim rings in their boxes. But I prefer the wheels without the rings. Now...I only need another $100K for the concours resto.
Ha, that ain't gonna happen. Anyway, I want to drive mine. I am doing the best I can though. I hope to get it back this year.

[2manyT/A'S]

Here's MY contribution....... (obviously NOT in chronological order)

JW... 7-15, 9-4, 6-25, 1-27, 1-26, 4-27, 4-13, 5-11, 1-26, 3-9, 4-6.

KN... 7-28, 7-27.

KR... 12-30, 3-25, 5-29, 12,29, 7-21.

One of the KR 12-29's still had the GM part# tag on it,so it was sold as a service replacement part.

[Transamric]

In addition to those, I've got/had JW 4-10, 5-25, & KR 11-9.

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

Here's MY contribution....... (obviously NOT in chronological order)

JW... 7-15, 9-4, 6-25, 1-27, 1-26, 4-27, 4-13, 5-11, 1-26, 3-9, 4-6.

KN... 7-28, 7-27.

KR... 12-30, 3-25, 5-29, 12,29, 7-21.

One of the KR 12-29's still had the GM part# tag on it,so it was sold as a service replacement part.

2manyT/A'S, being new to this and not being familiar with the start and finish run dates of these wheels for each year, are all of these one year or multi-year? Are they 1970, or a mix of all three years? It's probably obvious for those of you that have been researching this for years, but not me, not yet. Thanks very much for posting up the information though. I haven't included all of them in the list below until you or someone can clarify it for me. Anyway here is a list of what everybody has said they have, or have had, or have seen, in chronological order along with the day of the week they were stamped.

JW's: Mon-01/26/70, Thu-06/25/70, Wed-07/15/70, Sat-07/25/70, Fri-09/04/70

KN's: Mon-07/27/70, Tue-07/28/70, ?Thu-08/13/70? (maybe)

KR's: Tue-07/28/70, Mon-12/28/70, Tue-12/29/70, Wed-12/30/70
Mon-01/04/71, Wed-07/21/71, Wed12/08/71
Mon-02/28/72, Sat-03/25/72

I saw that a couple of these hit on a Saturday, Do you think that maybe the plants worked overtime occasionally to catch up, or is it just a mistake some of us made?

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by TA455HO

To one side of the valve stem you will observe a stamp that will appear like "M19" with the "9" below the "1". The "9" indicates the year 1969, a "0" would be 1970, etc. Between this stamp and the valve stem will be another number from "1" to "12" which will designate the month. On the other side of the valve stem will be a number between "1" and "31" designating the day, and beside that will be the wheel code "KR" or whatever code the wheel actually is.

I'm still a little fuzzy about the correct method to interpret the date code stampings on my wheels due to inconsistencies I see on the M1 over 0 vs. the M only over 1 on my wheels. Only one of my wheels has the marking as suggested by TA455HO. It has the M1 over the 0 approximately 1 1/2" to the left of the valve stem hole. The month and day are as they should be with the (12) immediately on the left of the valve stem and the day of the month (29) immediately on the right with KR being stamped about an inch to the right of the day of the month. The three remaining wheels only have an M over the 1 with the rest of the markings being where they should be. Does anyone else have wheels with markings like this?


Note: I made a mistake on known date codes for 1971 KR wheels. Wed-07/21/71 wheel date code should have read Thu-01/21/71 (happens to be two of my four wheels).

[1971455HO]

Thought I would bump this up again. I remember talking to Ole 'pinion Head and finding out I needed a set of 7/27 or 7/28 KN's for my car. My car was built one week before the big strike. If anybody has what I need, I have five KR's to trade with.

[TA455HO]

Eddie - What are the date codes on your KRs? Any interest in trading one KR for one KN? You can PM me if you want to discuss.

Chad

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

Thought I would bump this up again. I remember talking to Ole 'pinion Head and finding out I needed a set of 7/27 or 7/28 KN's for my car. My car was built one week before the big strike. If anybody has what I need, I have five KR's to trade with.

I have a set of restored 7-28 Kn I would sell for 1200. Dont need any Kr's. Pm me if interested

[Transamric]

1971455HO,...so your TA is an 09A build? Are you sure it should have KN's? Some very early '71's had JW's. Even some I've docemented well after the strike, had a mix of JW & KN. I'm betting your Build Sheet would show JW also.

[TA455HO]

Ric - 1971455HO has a Norwood car so likely no build sheet unless he got real lucky. Didn't all build sheets call out JW if it was a Rally II wheel? Or have you seen examples where it lists KN or KR?

Chad

[1971455HO]

No... honestly, I'm not sure. I was just reading over some old post here and one of the members here who I'm sure knows more than I do said "all of the intact early 71 TA's that he has documented had KN's from the factory on them. That's why I thought I needed them. As to my build sheet, I hate to even think about it. I got this car in 1980. Traded a 5 window cab '50 Chevy swb P/U & $1000,00 for it off of a car lot. First thing I did was come home and start cleaning. I removed the bottom back seats and discovered some folded up papers under the seat springs. Looked them over and said to myself, "This is from when they built it at the factory, I don't need this crap"!...in my ignorance as I cleaned it up,I let the vacuum take care of them. 7 yrs later I learned what I had done. Been crying ever since. Anyway, I'm not sure what wheels are supposed to be on my car. I got a set of Honeycombs, a set of KR's and I'm talking to a guy about a set of KN's.

[TA455HO]

Eddie - Do you have the PHS docs for your car? I think it would say if they were Honeycombs originally because of the extra charge. Not sure if it says anything about Rally IIs if you got them instead, but I think it is a clue.