[justincampbell]

Originally Posted by kylek350

My issue is that ethanol blended fueled is not better for the environment. It's inferior fuel that's not really solving a problem directly.

AMEN!

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by necdb3

I always question the REAL total cost of ethanol fuel. Gubment subsidies for the corn growers $$, food cost go up (for not growing for food), energy cost to convert it to ethanol, less BTU's in a gallon = less fuel economy and/or more fuel consumed to travel a mile.

Is it really worth it?

Not to mention, we have a glut of gasoline in our country so much as we are the largest exporter of gasoline.

I agree. Which begs the Q: what is the real value of the $ and why is typical USA per gallon cost STILL above $3:00?

In my personal experience, domestic Bio-Diesel industry died overnight when Fed switched "incentives" subsidies from Bio to ethanol in late 2007...

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by kylek350

Ethanol blends wreak havoc on anything but daily drivers... I have a tiller that won't run properly on e15 that's older than 3 weeks....I'm officially not a fan.

My Tiller, Leaf blower, and mowers are affected. Even the choke settings for peak power are strange for the first 10 minutes. Fuel PRIMER dry-rotted within 1 year from new.

Somehow, the Stihl FarmBoss Chainsaw runs great.

[necdb3]

I wouldn't be surprised if the TRUE cost of a gallon of ethanol was more than a gallon of gasoline.

[Lightfoot]

E10 hard at work.

[Captainofiron]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Not thinking who is right or wrong, but here we have been using E10 for more years than I can remember and haven't had any issues relating to fuel line corrosion, blah, blah.

Is pure gas better, yes. Is e15 so much more terrible than e10, don't know, but it can't be like falling off a cliff by increasing 5%.

Sure there's probably gubment bureaucracy and overall greed behind the ethanol thing but let's add some common sense to the issue.

The video claims there is engine damage due to detonation when phase separation happens and the engine starts using the 83? octane fuel.....don't modern engines with computers (prob all cars for the last 20 years) have detonation sensors and the computers retard timing when detonation is detected?

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Everyone get on the bandwagon!

George

I dont think the sky is falling, however I do see a pretty big loss of fuel economy in my cars, I gain 2-3mpg when using pure gas

[Formulabruce]

no computer can fix phase separated fuel, or make your car burn fuel that will not burn ( separated fuel.) I have seen it try to run on separated fuel, its horrible

[Ogre]

This is an interesting conversation. I never considered the effects of "corn oil" in gasoline before. Some of the comments ... lower gas mileage, for instance, make sense. But until I watched a couple of Youtube vids on how to get the ethanol out of the gas/corn mixture I never really thought about it.

I agree with George that going from 10% to 15% is probably not that big a deal, but I also think that ANY is a BIG deal.

Watching how water can interact with the ethanol, and basically remove it, is interesting. Where it is removed to is what bothers me. The water corn oil mixture falls to the bottom (heavier than Gas). This is right where the fuel pickup for ALL engines is located ... our classics, lawnmowers, weed eaters, boats, etc. Why would we want a pickup to be higher and not be able to use all of the fuel available? DUH. Also any "low point", where the fuel can accumulate (puddle) will be more conducive to a collection of water/ethanol mix.

So any moisture in the fuel tank with a little bit of sloshing around can cause this "phase separation." Obviously any engine that has been sitting for a length of time (say over Winter with a partially full fuel tank), when started first thing in the spring, will inevitably suck up the water ethanol mixture for the first few piston cycles ... THAT CAN"T BE GOOD. I try to remember to add some "Sta-bil" to all of my engines, but the correct method may be to make sure the tank is full, and less air (and associated humidity) is available, to decrease the effects of the "phase separation."

Any way that's my thoughts () ... comments?

BTW, when I used to fly light airplanes we drained the fuel from the low point in the wings to get the heavier than avgas water out before we started the engine(s). Do we need to now put a drain point in our classic fueltanks to save our engines?

Ogre

[2002Z4CSS]

More Obama and his crew failing.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Ogre

This is an interesting conversation. I never considered the effects of "corn oil" in gasoline before. Some of the comments ... lower gas mileage, for instance, make sense. But until I watched a couple of Youtube vids on how to get the ethanol out of the gas/corn mixture I never really thought about it.

I agree with George that going from 10% to 15% is probably not that big a deal, but I also think that ANY is a BIG deal.

Watching how water can interact with the ethanol, and basically remove it, is interesting. Where it is removed to is what bothers me. The water corn oil mixture falls to the bottom (heavier than Gas). This is right where the fuel pickup for ALL engines is located ... our classics, lawnmowers, weed eaters, boats, etc. Why would we want a pickup to be higher and not be able to use all of the fuel available? DUH. Also any "low point", where the fuel can accumulate (puddle) will be more conducive to a collection of water/ethanol mix.

So any moisture in the fuel tank with a little bit of sloshing around can cause this "phase separation." Obviously any engine that has been sitting for a length of time (say over Winter with a partially full fuel tank), when started first thing in the spring, will inevitably suck up the water ethanol mixture for the first few piston cycles ... THAT CAN"T BE GOOD. I try to remember to add some "Sta-bil" to all of my engines, but the correct method may be to make sure the tank is full, and less air (and associated humidity) is available, to decrease the effects of the "phase separation."

Any way that's my thoughts () ... comments?

BTW, when I used to fly light airplanes we drained the fuel from the low point in the wings to get the heavier than avgas water out before we started the engine(s). Do we need to now put a drain point in our classic fueltanks to save our engines?

Ogre

car on a storage lift in the summer heat all week...Phase separation...
Think on this.. the water is super corrosive, and rubber cannot handle that extra 5% alcohol. the combination isnt good. You'll need an additive that stops phase separation, just like the Diesel engines need a Lubricant for the newer low sulfur fuels to run efficiently
For Gasoline I use this after I saw a demonstration with water in glass jars at a Napa store, which sells many brands of fuel additive. It will burn the water to the bottom of the jar, and removes any separation. Sold me, the star tron, or stabil wouldnt do that.

[kylek350]

Additives are a great suggestion. I'll have to start looking into that. I've traditionally been using Sea Foam as a stabilizer with good results, but I admittedly have not done a lot of research on the subject. More to come. . .

[dataway]

Most products that use the old "water and gas in a clear glass jar" demonstration are just alcohol based additives that combine with the water in the jar to produce a gas soluble solution ....in other words ...ethanol gas.

Look for your favorite products here:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_a..._e10_list.html

To see what the ingredients are.
JohnnyB

[LordPancake]

There is hope yet!

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/03...hanol-mandate/

[Formulabruce]

Oddly enough, the Govt lists Natural Gas as "NON renewable", yet Landfills produce BILLIONS of cubic feet of it every year!!
hint>> Diapers + kitchen waste= METHANE!!
Its so dumb how things are done with NO common sense...

[Captainofiron]

I wonder how many of the newer cars that run on ethanol blend gas have plastic fuel tanks.