[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Will

Ever push-started a car with a dead battery?

Yep, many times. If you are going to tell me you and your other super hero friends were able to push the car in 1st gear or reverse from a dead stop, then fly on over here with your super powers so I can shake your hand.

Have 2-3 guys push a car in first gear, clutch pedal in, ignition off, to a running pace. Drop the clutch in 1st and see what happens. I'll give you a hint, the car stops ... very quickly.

As kids, we figured out pretty quickly you could not overcome the engine compression (braking) in first gear so we used 3rd or 4th when push starting. The torque multiplication is reversed.

[joshDub]

Lol. Just no.

I can't tell if you are that dumb or a troll.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Classic442

I found to be at issue after the updated parts were installed was a shop or friend to align to updated specifications and spring rates that create pitch when pushed hard over uneven pavement. I noticed this issue on my 87 Buick T when I used Moog springs. It would pitch rear to front when turning and accelerating through an intersection and exiting the turn. The first time this happened it unloaded the rear tires while the turbo was spooling. Needless to say the Buick earned a story that day as a few fellow car guys and I were headed to a local get together. It felt more like my 74 Dodge 100 then a well balanced car. Lance

Sounds like a wild ride. Was it a mismatch of the spring rates? Weak shocks?

[Classic442]

It was the springs, it had Bilstein shocks. Replaced the springs all was well, picked up tall bj for UMI upper and lower control arms. A week later a guy shows up and bought it with no test drive, and drove off. Just like that...now I am considering a 71 or 72 Lemans 350, cam, minor head work, reworked Q-jet, 5 speed, Corbeau seats, and a 90hp nitrous kit.

Could be fun...

[Nicks67GTO]

Im going to do you a favor here. Its going to sound harsh but im just going to say it......You need to send a lot of this stuff back. Eat the freight and send stuff back.

Ebay tubular upper/lower control arms w. urethane bushings and ball joints chinese junk that I wouldnt put on a go cart. Go over to pro touring.com and read about these. Buy from UMI, Ridetech, SC&C, BMR, Speedtech anyone but these ebay POS arms.
UMI tubular rear control and trailing arm kit. Great company and American made. Are they adjustable? If not send them back and get adjustable arms
Moog 5400 Front and CC5501 Rear springs Buy a good aftermarket spring from SPC, Hotchkis or someone else the generic repop springs are junk
Hellwig rear sway bar Hellwig makes good parts
KYB Gas shocks for all 4 corners Send these shocks back and at least get Bilstiens. If you want a fixed valve upgrade look at Ridetech or Chassisworks
Energy Suspension end links with urethane bushings
Energy Suspensions urethane sway bar bushings
Rear disc brake conversion kit with Caddy Eldorado calipers/ebrake I used these for 3 years without issue. You will have to shorten your ebrake cable though
Moog rear spring isolators
GM proportioning valve kit w. lines
New brake hose lines
New rear brake hardlines
Carter M6907 mechanical fuel pump (taking out the whiney Holley red pump)
Cardone 1997 Jeep steering box excellent upgrade for thee money
Lares 200 rag joint
Repro RAV Holley dual feed fuel hardline

[HWYSTR455]

Totally agree when it comes to the springs, have to buy quality ones from a reputable seller or you will struggle with lean, uneven stance, and uneven rates. My preference is Global West, and I avoid Hotchkis.

Bilstein's all the way. For the money, they are the best deal out there. eShocks.com have some of the best prices for them.

The Right Stuff rear disc kit is a much better option, and the calipers are better than the eldos. Think I paid $440 for my setup on the 442 with an ebrake.

Right Stuff sells the Chinese tubular arms and they're fine. I found a set on egay under a no-name and were the exact same ones. The uppers have issues I've heard, but I used GWs, because I am running tall spindles. Some say the Chinese uppers cause the alignment to not reach desirable specs.

Sway bars are pretty much sway bars, and I prefer not to drill holes in my floor to mount them, so OE style is fine for my stuff.

On my LeMans, I have AFX spindles, and C5 brakes. The CPP spindles the jury is still out on, but I plan to throw a set on the 442, once I do, I will do a comparison to the AFX. But for the money, even if they are slightly off from the AFX, it's the best big brake and handling deal out there.

I run 9" dual diaphragm boosters and disc/disc combo valves, vette masters. The 442 will throw you through the windshield, the touch/feel/modulation is almost like a new car, no joke. It has OE 11" on the front and the Right Stuff rear kit, works great for just about all kinds of driving on the street. Only reason to go bigger on that car would be autocross or track. The LeMans brakes are a good step up, and I've done panic stops from 130-140mph and not had to pray. I've spanked exotics with the LeMans in the handling dept, and not with shabby drivers behind the wheel.

.

[stickboy]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

Im going to do you a favor here. Its going to sound harsh but im just going to say it......You need to send a lot of this stuff back. Eat the freight and send stuff back.

Ebay tubular upper/lower control arms w. urethane bushings and ball joints chinese junk that I wouldnt put on a go cart. Go over to pro touring.com and read about these. Buy from UMI, Ridetech, SC&C, BMR, Speedtech anyone but these ebay POS arms.
UMI tubular rear control and trailing arm kit. Great company and American made. Are they adjustable? If not send them back and get adjustable arms
Moog 5400 Front and CC5501 Rear springs Buy a good aftermarket spring from SPC, Hotchkis or someone else the generic repop springs are junk
Hellwig rear sway bar Hellwig makes good parts
KYB Gas shocks for all 4 corners Send these shocks back and at least get Bilstiens. If you want a fixed valve upgrade look at Ridetech or Chassisworks
Energy Suspension end links with urethane bushings
Energy Suspensions urethane sway bar bushings
Rear disc brake conversion kit with Caddy Eldorado calipers/ebrake I used these for 3 years without issue. You will have to shorten your ebrake cable though
Moog rear spring isolators
GM proportioning valve kit w. lines
New brake hose lines
New rear brake hardlines
Carter M6907 mechanical fuel pump (taking out the whiney Holley red pump)
Cardone 1997 Jeep steering box excellent upgrade for thee money
Lares 200 rag joint
Repro RAV Holley dual feed fuel hardline

This is very good advice.
I'm doing the Stage 2 kit from SC&C - SPC uppers + balljoints
Freshen up the pads and rotors.
Springs and shocks - MOOG year one 20 yr old stuff has to go.

Then a set of slicks.

Pretty much eats up the budget for now.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by joshDub

Lol. Just no.

I can't tell if you are that dumb or a troll.

You amuse me.

[joshDub]

As you do me.

But possibly for not much longer considering those Chinese A arms.

[Will]

Yah, I'm kind of speechless here. Yes, I've push started a car in 1st gear plenty of times. We usually used 2nd though because it spins the engine faster. I've never once not been able to get the engine to turn over in 1st gear.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

Im going to do you a favor here. Its going to sound harsh but im just going to say it......You need to send a lot of this stuff back. Eat the freight and send stuff back.

Ebay tubular upper/lower control arms w. urethane bushings and ball joints chinese junk that I wouldnt put on a go cart. Go over to pro touring.com and read about these. Buy from UMI, Ridetech, SC&C, BMR, Speedtech anyone but these ebay POS arms.
UMI tubular rear control and trailing arm kit. Great company and American made. Are they adjustable? If not send them back and get adjustable arms
Moog 5400 Front and CC5501 Rear springs Buy a good aftermarket spring from SPC, Hotchkis or someone else the generic repop springs are junk
Hellwig rear sway bar Hellwig makes good parts
KYB Gas shocks for all 4 corners Send these shocks back and at least get Bilstiens. If you want a fixed valve upgrade look at Ridetech or Chassisworks
Energy Suspension end links with urethane bushings
Energy Suspensions urethane sway bar bushings
Rear disc brake conversion kit with Caddy Eldorado calipers/ebrake I used these for 3 years without issue. You will have to shorten your ebrake cable though
Moog rear spring isolators
GM proportioning valve kit w. lines
New brake hose lines
New rear brake hardlines
Carter M6907 mechanical fuel pump (taking out the whiney Holley red pump)
Cardone 1997 Jeep steering box excellent upgrade for thee money
Lares 200 rag joint
Repro RAV Holley dual feed fuel hardline

Thanks for the brotherly advice. Unlike vDub. I will admit when I am wrong.

This whole mix and match of parts has me worried from a functionality standpoint. The two main items being the springs (spring rates and ride height) and the eBay control arms.

I looked over the parts and talked with the shop about the controls arms. 1) the shop owner couldn't believe how good they looked in terms of welds, powder coat and ball joint quality. 2) We both agree that until they're mounted and at the alignment shop, I'll never know if they are going to work as intended and then it's a little late. 3) Same goes with the springs. Until the car hits the shop floor on all fours I won't be able to judge the ride height and ride quality. Like you say, probably better sourced as a complete kit rather than "parts".

I can't argue about the Bilsteins, no doubt they build a better shock and better shock has a tendency to level the playing field on the spring rates and rebound characteristics.

I am going to slow the play down a bit and some more homework on the alternates you have suggested. The shop is starting the trans and rear end tomorrow so I have a few days to kick it around.

Thanks for the critique and experience share!

[b-man]

Do yourself a big favor and call both Mark Savitske at SC&C http://scandc.com/new/ for your suspension components and Tobin Knighton at KORE3 http://www.kore3.com/ for your brakes.

Both of these gentlemen are great on the phone and have many options they can offer you depending on your needs and budget.

I sourced nearly all of my components from them, both gave great technical advice that was easy to understand and steered me towards the right parts for what I was wanting to do:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=610357

[Scarebird]

I agree with the Savitske call - no need for lower arms here.

We do make a nice rear drum-in-hat setup, will work with bolt in axles too without shimming, bigger caliper pistons and ebrake shoe is externally adjustable.

[stickboy]

Yup, Mark literally wrote the book on suspensions. He is a wealth of knowledge. I'm still trying to understand how it all works.

But yeah, shocks and springs have to work together.

[khkiley1]

Scarebird,

Does your drum in hat kit work with C6 calipers and rotors ?

Thanks,

Kurt

[NO67GTO]

Are the front arms you bought Scorpion brand? (Hope not)
I have all UMI rear suspension and it went together well. Haven't driven it yet.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by khkiley1

Scarebird,

Does your drum in hat kit work with C6 calipers and rotors ?

Thanks,

Kurt

no. leave that stuff to Kore3 and those guys - we build to fit inside stock rims. Here we use 1980-85 Citation calipers and S10 rear 2WD rotors

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by NO67GTO

Are the front arms you bought Scorpion brand? (Hope not)

Yes, Scorpions in front, UMI in back.. You didn't like the Scorpions? The set I got look very good in terms of welds and fitment, All bushings are Delrin with grease fittings and spherical rod ends on the sway bar ends. The looked very beefy and fit very well. Haven't progressed to alignment yet though.

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

Thanks for the brotherly advice. Unlike vDub. I will admit when I am wrong.

This whole mix and match of parts has me worried from a functionality standpoint. The two main items being the springs (spring rates and ride height) and the eBay control arms.

I looked over the parts and talked with the shop about the controls arms. 1) the shop owner couldn't believe how good they looked in terms of welds, powder coat and ball joint quality. 2) We both agree that until they're mounted and at the alignment shop, I'll never know if they are going to work as intended and then it's a little late. 3) Same goes with the springs. Until the car hits the shop floor on all fours I won't be able to judge the ride height and ride quality. Like you say, probably better sourced as a complete kit rather than "parts".

I can't argue about the Bilsteins, no doubt they build a better shock and better shock has a tendency to level the playing field on the spring rates and rebound characteristics.

I am going to slow the play down a bit and some more homework on the alternates you have suggested. The shop is starting the trans and rear end tomorrow so I have a few days to kick it around.

Thanks for the critique and experience share!

I did the mix and match parts and my car drove so bad I mostly kept it parked the last few years. This year I spent a small fortune swapping out parts, but well worth it.

KYB shocks are the worst. Might be ok if you they were put on a car with factory saging soft springs.
I agree 100% on the factory style springs. Stay away.
Take Nike67GTO advice his car rides awesome.
Also what B-man said. I hope to go with the SC&C stage II myself on my 64.

[TCSGTO]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

Yes, Scorpions in front, UMI in back.. You didn't like the Scorpions? The set I got look very good in terms of welds and fitment, All bushings are Delrin with grease fittings and spherical rod ends on the sway bar ends. The looked very beefy and fit very well. Haven't progressed to alignment yet though.

If you decide to use the Chinese upper arms replace the ball joints with moog or maybe Howe if you want to go with a taller joint. 2 people on the Chevelle forums have had the ball joints catastrophically fail. Luckily no one was hurt. Another person had the welds x-rayed and they passed. The arms themselves seem to be sturdy enough but some have reported geometry problems and difficulty aligning but that could be from frame sag.