[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Just a quick thought on this - I have watched the CV-1 "DEBATE" go on for what -- 6 or 7 years. There is one way to end it all - put up or shut up -- And by that I mean put a product out there that will work better than all the rest of the stuff your comparing to. And as stated before, don't putt all your eggs in one basket - ONE motor that has been worked and reworked and reworked for ever to make it competitive is NOT what I am talking about. Success on many levels will quiet the banter - right ??

... well, i'm not sure who's engine you're referencing with the whole (worked, reworked, and reworked forever) part, but we don't have an engine that fits that description at all, Fulton is our top dog right now, so i'm assuming that's the one you're meaning, but his engine is the same set up as it was when it was first built, same cam, valvetrain, manifold, carbs, bottom end etc ... even the N20 system is the same, there have some set backs and bugs for sure, but nothing that fits the reworked forever statement, and the eggs in one basket doesn't fit either, Fulton is a customer that wanted to build a CV-1 N20 engine that makes more power than his old combo, and that's exactly what has been done, certainly not all our eggs per say ...

... now where i do agree with you 100% is the (Success on many Levels) part of your post, which is exactly what we've been doing, and i know the first thing many will say or bring up the whole N/A Max Effort type build, which obviously has not happen yet, but the issue there is there have been a bunch of customers that have directly compared their CV-1's to other cylinder heads, and on these customers cars the Tigers, Edelbrock RPM's, KRE D-Ports & High-Ports have all been outrun on customers cars with before and after testing, the real problem is for some reason when people make suggestions like yours, these customers before & after testing has somehow been forgotten, no matter how much we try to remind people of it, and the notion nothing has happened in 7 years now, which honestly makes no sense to me, so the success on many levels has been happening for quite some time now and Fulton's car is certainly a part of that, in fact Fulton's performance at Norwalk which was a 7.62 @ 174 which came after lifting close to 200ft short as we'd made the low cylinder even less happy, previous run was approaching 181mph, but there are others that are trying to convince everyone that Fulton's car is not much faster if at all ...

[cgeise]

ok -- I know there are two sides to every story - can you list the different combos that have had back to back with Tigers. Hi ports ect and shown an improvement all else being equal ??? And lets be fair --give us all the info , good and bad as you see it.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by cgeise

ok -- I know there are two sides to every story - can you list the different combos that have had back to back with Tigers. Hi ports ect and shown an improvement all else being equal ??? And lets be fair --give us all the info , good and bad as you see it.

Fulton did a test prior to this current build... on his old motor with Gaby wideports vs CV1's... he made more power and was impressed enough to move on and build the combo he has now. That info got trashed and buried no different than any other CV post. Dig long enough you'll find it.

Its been quite a few years...and quite a few guys who swapped from tigers or wideports and went faster with cv1's Curt, but every one of them got critiqued on BS vs looking at the build for what it was to begin with and the improvements found.

As far as development... Bill developed the ports in Fultons motor years ago. There are smaller and bigger ports developed a long time ago. Some in use, some in heads going on builds started years ago with time and money in short supply to finish. Latest CV1 castings allow some very serious ports with no welding needed vs the older castings... Not many racers out there that could make full use of these yet...but why is that?

Yeah I know...just a cheerleader... why believe me? I took the time to find out about these heads and took the time to learn some things about heads in general that I needed to know.

Also got to find out Bill is actually a top level head porter...not just my praise...his boss(Sonny) told me personally.
Darin Morgan referred him to Sonny. The former head porter at Sonnys retired and passed the baton to him vs a few others competing for the job. He was impressed.
You simply dont get and keep those jobs if you're not good, regardless who you know.
First set of "Bill" heads on one of Sonnys team cars #1qualifier 1st meet of season and big improvements over previous bests for the team... but if you believe the BS thats out there...he's just a hack.

One other thing Curt... The CV1 wasnt and isnt intended to be an all out race head...Marcella and others have said it and I've said it. Its a great sportsman head that can cover a very wide range and do very well in the right builder/racers hands. Need a Race head beyond CV1 capability a billet CV2 can be made.

In case you missed it... Fultons passes at Norwalk were on DOT's not his slicks. At Bowling Green earlier this year he managed to find a few mph over KRE's NA dragster. KRE was quicker though. Dick also won his street class at Brainerd against stiff competion from the Chevy, Ford and Mopar guys. The heads never came off all season. Includes dyno and track testing.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

The heads never came off all season. Includes dyno and track testing.

How did the pistons get fixed/changed then?

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by slowbird

How did the pistons get fixed/changed then?

Before the 2016 season started

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Before the 2016 season started

Bruce you said dyno or track time, they broke a cam key in the car, how did they fix that without pulling the heads? They pinched a ring before or at Norwalk, how they fixing that? Roll your eyes all you want the heads have been off that engine in 2016.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Fulton did a test prior to this current build... on his old motor with Gaby wideports vs CV1's...

What ET's did Dick Fulton's car run with Gaby wideports?

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

What ET's did Dick Fulton's car run with Gaby wideports?

He has posted it but you can search it. I dont have the numbers memorized...

Gaby wideports were on old motor and he tested Cv1's against them.
Dont know if he bothered to race it or not. I think the dyno told him all he needed to know... He used the same dyno and operator...same dyno as current combo.

If you have the time to search for it he does have a post or thread on this also.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

He has posted it but you can search it. I dont have the numbers memorized...

Gaby wideports were on old motor and he tested Cv1's against them.
Dont know if he bothered to race it or not. I think the dyno told him all he needed to know... He used the same dyno and operator...same dyno as current combo.

If you have the time to search for it he does have a post or thread on this also.

Thanks Bruce, all I'm finding is his test on the stock block where he tested his wide-ports back to back with a pair of CV1'S.... is this the test you're referring to? I'm just curious to compare the numbers because it's been mentioned here before that the CV1'S went faster than his Gaby heads.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by cgeise

ok -- I know there are two sides to every story - can you list the different combos that have had back to back with Tigers. Hi ports ect and shown an improvement all else being equal ??? And lets be fair --give us all the info , good and bad as you see it.

... thank you for asking Curt, i'll try and condense as best i can ...

1) Robin Robert's Fully ported Tiger's with a tunnel ram went 10.0's on motor in his N20 prepped car, with out of the box CV-1's the car went 9.70's right off the trailer ...

2) Kelvin Poe's DB prepped HighPort combo went high 8.30's and with Calvin's CV-1 top end it went 8.0's first weekend out ...

3) Ken Keefer's 300cfm E-Head combo ran 10.50's before and went 10.0's with his out of the box CV-1 top end ...

4) Bruce Drigger's CV-1 top end picked up 1.5 tenths in the 1/8th over his CNC'd E-Head top end ...

5) Jeff Rana changed from his CV-1 top end to a High Port top end and the car was faster with his CV-1 top end ...

6) Smart Buy (PY User) 3900lb 428c.i. pump gas combo went from 12.80's to 12.20's with his out of the box CV-1 top end over his ported iron heads ...

7) Clay Phillips ran high 9.30's with his Dan Whitmore RA-IV top end and improved to 9.14's with his CV-1 top end ... stock block combo ...

8) Larry Quinn with his formerly owned Langer Wenzler heads ran high 8.95's and improved to 8.70's with his CV-1 top end ... 481c.i. combo ...

9) Brian Hedrick with his ProCharged BES ported E-Heads ran high 8.60's and went low 8.40's with his as cast CV-1 top end, and picked up 140hp on the dyno also ...

10) Randy B. (BIR Minnesota Racer) with his 505c.i. combo picked up 2.4 tenths and 4.6 mph over his KRE heads right off the trailor ...

... now there are others that are not a direct before and after comparison, meaning these customers built the car with a CV-1 combo in it to start, just some are Mike McCarty which runs high 9.60's in true pump gas street trim at 3400lbs, and Torry Rockwood at 3360lbs runs 9.0's at 149mph with his CV-1 combo shifting at only 6900rpm also, and Robert Brown with his street driven 2nd gen TransAm Turbo car ran high 8.60's at almost 160 mph ...

... so to assume the CV-1 program has been idle for seven years, is well, simply not true, these heads have been doing work for some time now, and there are others that i did not name on my list, but i am trying to condense here ...

... and i think Dick Fulton certainly deserves mention here as his combo has been showing serious HP at his 3140lb weight N20 combo, as he clicked off 180+ mph at Norwalk this year in very hot ugly weather, and the last run we made when he lifted very early, posted up a 7.62 at only 173mph, with the previous run posting the 180+mph, which is very obvious his car certainly has more left in the tank, and to think his old E-Head combo would do the same in that weather, with that tight convertor, and a hurt cylinder, and lifting that early, is just simply retarded, that combo would have struggled to stay in the 7's this year at Norwalk, and those are Dick Fulton's words ...

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Anderson Port Development

... thank you for asking Curt, i'll try and condense as best i can ...

1) Robin Robert's Fully ported Tiger's with a tunnel ram went 10.0's on motor in his N20 prepped car, with out of the box CV-1's the car went 9.70's right off the trailer ...

2) Kelvin Poe's DB prepped HighPort combo went high 8.30's and with Calvin's CV-1 top end it went 8.0's first weekend out ...

3) Ken Keefer's 300cfm E-Head combo ran 10.50's before and went 10.0's with his out of the box CV-1 top end ...

4) Bruce Drigger's CV-1 top end picked up 1.5 tenths in the 1/8th over his CNC'd E-Head top end ...

5) Jeff Rana changed from his CV-1 top end to a High Port top end and the car was faster with his CV-1 top end ...

6) Smart Buy (PY User) 3900lb 428c.i. pump gas combo went from 12.80's to 12.20's with his out of the box CV-1 top end over his ported iron heads ...

7) Clay Phillips ran high 9.30's with his Dan Whitmore RA-IV top end and improved to 9.14's with his CV-1 top end ... stock block combo ...

8) Larry Quinn with his formerly owned Langer Wenzler heads ran high 8.95's and improved to 8.70's with his CV-1 top end ... 481c.i. combo ...

9) Brian Hedrick with his ProCharged BES ported E-Heads ran high 8.60's and went low 8.40's with his as cast CV-1 top end, and picked up 140hp on the dyno also ...

10) Randy B. (BIR Minnesota Racer) with his 505c.i. combo picked up 2.4 tenths and 4.6 mph over his KRE heads right off the trailor ...

... now there are others that are not a direct before and after comparison, meaning these customers built the car with a CV-1 combo in it to start, just some are Mike McCarty which runs high 9.60's in true pump gas street trim at 3400lbs, and Torry Rockwood at 3360lbs runs 9.0's at 149mph with his CV-1 combo shifting at only 6900rpm also, and Robert Brown with his street driven 2nd gen TransAm Turbo car ran high 8.60's at almost 160 mph ...

... so to assume the CV-1 program has been idle for seven years, is well, simply not true, these heads have been doing work for some time now, and there are others that i did not name on my list, but i am trying to condense here ...

... and i think Dick Fulton certainly deserves mention here as his combo has been showing serious HP at his 3140lb weight N20 combo, as he clicked off 180+ mph at Norwalk this year in very hot ugly weather, and the last run we made when he lifted very early, posted up a 7.62 at only 173mph, with the previous run posting the 180+mph, which is very obvious his car certainly has more left in the tank, and to think his old E-Head combo would do the same in that weather, with that tight convertor, and a hurt cylinder, and lifting that early, is just simply retarded, that combo would have struggled to stay in the 7's this year at Norwalk, and those are Dick Fulton's words ...

... and I forgot to add, Robert Brown's TransAm runs on pump gas, and it weighs 4031lbs ...

[slowbird]

Who went from Tiger's to CV1? Only 1 person i know of compared the CV1 to HP heads and that person is currently running HP heads, so i assume the end result of that testing wasnt in the CV1 favor. Any NA CV1 running 8s weighing over 3000lbs?

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Who went from Tiger's to CV1? Only 1 person i know of compared the CV1 to HP heads and that person is currently running HP heads, so i assume the end result of that testing wasnt in the CV1 favor. Any NA CV1 running 8s weighing over 3000lbs?

Larry Quinn's been running 8.70's for a while at I think 2975 or a little heavier.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Hooter

Larry Quinn's been running 8.70's for a while at I think 2975 or a little heavier.

... ...

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Who went from Tiger's to CV1? Only 1 person i know of compared the CV1 to HP heads and that person is currently running HP heads, so i assume the end result of that testing wasnt in the CV1 favor. Any NA CV1 running 8s weighing over 3000lbs?

I know you know this already, not an 8 second pass, but the car will run well into the 8's at 3200lbs.

Here is the time slip from the SECOND PASS on the car at Norwalk. 5.780 in the 1/8 equates to what in the 1/4? Estimated weight on the car 3150lbs.

Our fuel issues kept us from being the first NA 3000+lb car with a 8 second ET.

This is a 511ci build started over three years ago with heads that were ported in 2011 (5 years ago), not max effort but a pretty good start with much more to come.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I know you know this already, not an 8 second pass, but the car will run well into the 8's at 3200lbs.

Here is the time slip from the SECOND PASS on the car at Norwalk. 5.780 in the 1/8 equates to what in the 1/4? Estimated weight on the car 3150lbs.

Our fuel issues kept us from being the first NA 3000+lb car with a 8 second ET.

This is a 511ci build started over three years ago with heads that were ported in 2011 (5 years ago), not max effort but a pretty good start with much more to come.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Less talk and more racing, lol. Good luck, next time out you should get there.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Who went from Tiger's to CV1? Only 1 person i know of compared the CV1 to HP heads and that person is currently running HP heads, so i assume the end result of that testing wasnt in the CV1 favor. Any NA CV1 running 8s weighing over 3000lbs?

... there have been two customers that tested against HighPorts (see list) and you assumed wrong to the CV-1 test results ...

... Torry RockWood is going to be in the 8's i believe as he's already running 9.0's at 3360lbs ...

[cgeise]

Bruce thanks for the info --I will say, one of the points that kinda crawls up my ass is the comment - IT JUST A STREET HEAD - yet there are those mouthing off all the time how it is better than X,Y and Z and how dare they be challenged -- and then when its run up on a higher end combo and it turns out just so so - the street head deal comes back up -- hope you see my point. One other point -- as long as I am nit picking, if the original version was so good, why all the different ports and there variation ??? it brings out more questions than answers - I know everyone "develops" and improves things-- but it makes people go - hmmmmmm?

[BADDTA]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Bruce thanks for the info --I will say, one of the points that kinda crawls up my ass is the comment - IT JUST A STREET HEAD - yet there are those mouthing off all the time how it is better than X,Y and Z and how dare they be challenged -- and then when its run up on a higher end combo and it turns out just so so - the street head deal comes back up -- hope you see my point. One other point -- as long as I am nit picking, if the original version was so good, why all the different ports and there variation ??? it brings out more questions than answers - I know everyone "develops" and improves things-- but it makes people go - hmmmmmm?

Your not buying them so why do you care? A lot of input and opinion on them from you?? Just asking...

Brian

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by BADDTA

Your not buying them so why do you care? A lot of input and opinion on them from you?? Just asking...

Brian

... but maybe he's on the fence ??? ...