[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by AG

In the case of my Continental converter I got from Cliff, I explained the motor/trans/rear gear and car usage to Cliff and he sent me what he thought was appropriate for the application. With all the accolades about the 10" Continentals, I expected my experience to be similar as others and I did not feel like it was very risky. I was very surprised the converter was nothing like the experience everyone was having. Even after UCC tightened it up, it's still slushy. Just disappointing after spending so much money. I'll have to look up what the numbers are.

If that was recently, as in within the last year Kris was doing converters before he closed Continental, then that would explain it.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have been using them for more than 20 years and it wasn't until the last couple years he was in business the converters were a little "lackluster" from the previous units I had.

The reasoning for this from what Kris explained, is that he was running out of the good parts he used in these units. Whether that was a supply chain issue I don't know but it was explained to me he was using a few parts inside that didn't perform how he liked and struggled to get these converters to couple as well as before, and he was perfectly clear about it when he built the last converter for dad's combo, telling him to not put anything less than a 3.50 rear gear in the car because he simply could not build the converter any tighter.
That's not the recommendations I would have gotten from Kris just a few years prior, that's for sure.
Turns out he was right, even that converter built as tight as he could make it (his words) was complete mush even with just a 3.42 gear installed and simply would not work at all. This was right about the time he decided to close the doors.

Any Continental I used years before were absolutely fantastic.

[Cliff R]

AG, I went back and read the original post. It appears that you bought this converter for a "customer"?

It also appears that Lenny was unable to improve it?

Is it still in service or replaced with something else?

If so, what was it replaced with and the end results?

When I read your first post I confused buying a 5000 stall Redneck converter with replacing the 10" Continental. That doesn't appear to be the case, so just wondered if another converter correct the "slushy" Continental that couldn't be fixed?.......

[Cliff R]

"The reasoning for this from what Kris explained, is that he was running out of the good parts he used in these units. Whether that was a supply chain issue I don't know but it was explained to me he was using a few parts inside that didn't perform how he liked and struggled to get these converters to couple as well as before, and he was perfectly clear about it when he built the last converter for dad's combo, telling him to not put anything less than a 3.50 rear gear in the car because he simply could not build the converter any tighter.
That's not the recommendations I would have gotten from Kris just a few years prior, that's for sure."

You may be onto something there. I know that the cores he used for the 10" units were something not all that common and he may have ran out of them toward the end of the business and went to something else. I never asked for specifics, but do remember Kris telling me that the cores he used to build those could "move a lot of oil" for the size (diameter) of the converter. Having a lot of oil to work with opens the door for making a tighter unit out of it from what I was told, then the fine details with the other internals to get the stall speed and coupled efficiency where it needed to be for specific applications.

I'll also add here that not too long before they closed up I tested a few prototypes and they were pretty "loose" with my set-up. I didn't ask for specifics and that testing never went anyplace from what I can remember. I went back to my original 10" unit. It's the best converter I've ever had in any vehicle I've owned dating clear back to when I first got into this hobby. You'd NEVER know it was even in there if I tossed you the keys and you took a gentle drive down a country road and went on into town to get some ice cream. IF you stopped by our local track on the way home, heated up tires and did a full throttle launch you'd better remove your hat and glasses first......because you'd be fetching them off the back window and flipping the passengers floor mat back over when you turned to come up the return road to get your time slip!!!......

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"The reasoning for this from what Kris explained, is that he was running out of the good parts he used in these units. Whether that was a supply chain issue I don't know but it was explained to me he was using a few parts inside that didn't perform how he liked and struggled to get these converters to couple as well as before, and he was perfectly clear about it when he built the last converter for dad's combo, telling him to not put anything less than a 3.50 rear gear in the car because he simply could not build the converter any tighter.
That's not the recommendations I would have gotten from Kris just a few years prior, that's for sure."

You may be onto something there. I know that the cores he used for the 10" units were something not all that common and he may have ran out of them toward the end of the business and went to something else. I never asked for specifics, but do remember Kris telling me that the cores he used to build those could "move a lot of oil" for the size (diameter) of the converter. Having a lot of oil to work with opens the door for making a tighter unit out of it from what I was told, then the fine details with the other internals to get the stall speed and coupled efficiency where it needed to be for specific applications.

I'll also add here that not too long before they closed up I tested a few prototypes and they were pretty "loose" with my set-up. I didn't ask for specifics and that testing never went anyplace from what I can remember. I went back to my original 10" unit. It's the best converter I've ever had in any vehicle I've owned dating clear back to when I first got into this hobby. You'd NEVER know it was even in there if I tossed you the keys and you took a gentle drive down a country road and went on into town to get some ice cream. IF you stopped by our local track on the way home, heated up tires and did a full throttle launch you'd better remove your hat and glasses first......because you'd be fetching them off the back window and flipping the passengers floor mat back over when you turned to come up the return road to get your time slip!!!......

Yes, one of the original 10" units I got from Kris that was in my car is exactly how you describe. Anyone driving it would never know it had any kind of stall converter in it. It just drove like a normal car, yet would allow the engine to idle nicely with the 242/248 cam I run in it while still driving around very snug and coupled very well. Take it to the track however and whack the throttle and it would jump right up to about 3400-ish slam you in the seat and run 1.5 60 foot times. Best damn converter I ever had in that car. I bought that converter in the early 2000's. I want to say maybe 2001 or 2? He was building some fantastic converters back then.

[AG]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

AG, I went back and read the original post. It appears that you bought this converter for a "customer"?

It also appears that Lenny was unable to improve it?

Is it still in service or replaced with something else?

If so, what was it replaced with and the end results?

When I read your first post I confused buying a 5000 stall Redneck converter with replacing the 10" Continental. That doesn't appear to be the case, so just wondered if another converter correct the "slushy" Continental that couldn't be fixed?.......

Yes, I bought the Continental 10" for a customer I had built a 461 for. The modifications that Lenny performed on the 10" made some level of improvement, but not as much as I wanted since it is a street only car, it is still in service in his car. The Redneck converter is in my racecar, I mentioned that as an example of a different converter brand and it's performance. The 10" was so far off initially I was shocked, it acted like a B&M 3000 rpm Holeshot behind a 550 Hp Pontiac.

[Cliff R]

Did Lenny happen to mention what was not up to par and what he did to improve it? Since he was associated with Kris at some point I would have thought he would have been able to correct any problems with it, unless the core used just didn't have the capabilities to move enough oil right to start with.

Not trying to be critical of anyone here, just wondering how a product we had so much success with could go thru both of those guys and still not be up to par?.......

[Cliff R]

"Yes, one of the original 10" units I got from Kris that was in my car is exactly how you describe. Anyone driving it would never know it had any kind of stall converter in it. It just drove like a normal car, yet would allow the engine to idle nicely with the 242/248 cam I run in it while still driving around very snug and coupled very well. Take it to the track however and whack the throttle and it would jump right up to about 3400-ish slam you in the seat and run 1.5 60 foot times. Best damn converter I ever had in that car. I bought that converter in the early 2000's. I want to say maybe 2001 or 2? He was building some fantastic converters back then."

I bought mine at about the same time.

I had been using the 13" unit and it was almost as good as the 10". I was seeing 3200 stall speed at the track behind my 455 and it drove like a completely stock converter on the street.

I was actually disappointed initially when I swapped in the 10" unit. It acted about the same, but flashed to 3500rpms instead of 3200.

Both were locked pretty much solid in high gear at the track.

I checked it on a 1/4 mile track and it showed very minimal slip in high gear. I went thru right around 120-121mph at 5000-5100rpms. That's with a 3.42 gear and 28" tall tire. A few years later I went to 26" tall tires and closer to 5300-5400 in high gear at about the same MPH..........

[Steve C.]

In 2003 I called Kriss at Continental with an engine dyno sheet in hand to order a custom 10-inch converter for my Trans Am. The combo at the time was a 4.210" stroke 462. It made peak power at 5800 rpm and peak torque at 4400 rpm on the engine dyno. For the most part the intended use was a pump gas street car with some drag strip use. TH400 trans, 28" D.O.T. tire and 3.73 gears. Race weight at the time was about 3710 lbs.

I started off asking Kriss about a "Jim Hand Special", he laughed and said there was really no such thing and reflected on the information Larry just mentioned above. All depends on the entire combination.
The numbers on the invoice for that converter were: 10" 400 P-1 P/S.

I don't remember the exact stall but the car had a 1.59 60-ft and ran 10.94 at 123.59 mph. That converter was great on the street and well coupled out on the open highway with about a 200 rpm slippage at a steady state cruise speed.

Later for interest we tried a custom 8-inch converter built by Hughes Performance that I had on hand for a different 462 combo that made peak torque and peak power at a much higher rpm. At the track it ran 10.88 at 124.28 mph.
Same transmission, tire and gear. It obviously stalled higher. However it came out and we put the 10-nich converter back in for street use.


.

[Steve C.]

I sent the 10-inch Continental converter mentioned above to Lenny at UCC for use in my current 505, he 'tweaked' it and sent it back. It worked great with the TH400 transmission. The 10.63 at 127.05 mph mentioned below.
But but now with the current TH2004-R transmission and 3.73 gears it's a bit off, but not enough that it matters. My car is no longer raced.

.

[AG]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Did Lenny happen to mention what was not up to par and what he did to improve it? Since he was associated with Kris at some point I would have thought he would have been able to correct any problems with it, unless the core used just didn't have the capabilities to move enough oil right to start with.

Not trying to be critical of anyone here, just wondering how a product we had so much success with could go thru both of those guys and still not be up to par?.......

I forgot, I dealt with Montgomery at UCC, here is the email train chronologically:

Montgomery,

The stamp designation on the converter is:

P1D
S BAL

It is supposed to be a tight 10” that couples very well and stalls at around 3200 rpm that is perfect for the motor it is behind. It was a very popular converter from Continental that the Pontiac community used. I understand you need to open it up and see what in it and then make the necessary modifications. How much for a restall? Should I just send it in to you?

Thanks, Tony

hmm,

A P1D is the tightest pump, so that’s interesting that it's as loose as you are describing. I'm not positive what the "S" is but the "BAL" is balanced. Did you see any other designations on it? I would hope to know what stator is in it without cutting it open, but it looks like we are on the road for putting her as tight as she can get, unless we are fighting another issue that we are unaware of?


Thank You,
Montgomery Ragland
Ultimate Converter Concepts

Morning Tony,


Got the converter opened up and looked over. Everything is spot on inside, going with your notes and description of how she is acting. In your situation it looks like you have a very low rpm torque producing monster. The course of action to get you tightened up will be some pump fin angle tweaks, along with going with a tighter full bladed falcon stator instead of your current pinto style. When you have a free moment if you'd like give me a call at the shop and I'll be happy to go over everything. You will be looking at the cut and clean, with the stator and machining, 350 + shipping.

Just let me know sir,


Thank You,
Montgomery Ragland


So everything looked good inside but it did not perform as it should have. Montgomery at UCC was perplexed and so am I.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by AG

I forgot, I dealt with Montgomery at UCC, here is the email train chronologically:

Montgomery,

The stamp designation on the converter is:

P1D
S BAL

It is supposed to be a tight 10” that couples very well and stalls at around 3200 rpm that is perfect for the motor it is behind. It was a very popular converter from Continental that the Pontiac community used. I understand you need to open it up and see what in it and then make the necessary modifications. How much for a restall? Should I just send it in to you?

Thanks, Tony

hmm,

A P1D is the tightest pump, so that’s interesting that it's as loose as you are describing. I'm not positive what the "S" is but the "BAL" is balanced. Did you see any other designations on it? I would hope to know what stator is in it without cutting it open, but it looks like we are on the road for putting her as tight as she can get, unless we are fighting another issue that we are unaware of?


Thank You,
Montgomery Ragland
Ultimate Converter Concepts

Morning Tony,


Got the converter opened up and looked over. Everything is spot on inside, going with your notes and description of how she is acting. In your situation it looks like you have a very low rpm torque producing monster. The course of action to get you tightened up will be some pump fin angle tweaks, along with going with a tighter full bladed falcon stator instead of your current pinto style. When you have a free moment if you'd like give me a call at the shop and I'll be happy to go over everything. You will be looking at the cut and clean, with the stator and machining, 350 + shipping.

Just let me know sir,


Thank You,
Montgomery Ragland


So everything looked good inside but it did not perform as it should have. Montgomery at UCC was perplexed and so am I.

He did take a guess as to what the problem was. Remember it is not how much HP the engine makes but how much torque.

Stan

[Cliff R]

The torque production is NOT the issue. That engine isn't making any more and probably not as much as my engine, same heads, same cam, but I'm at 11.3 to 1 compression. I also used light internals so it revs like a 283 SBC on steroids and smacks the living chit out of the converter......and it holds it fine. It's just like you dumped the clutch on a stick shift car, locked solid from the stall speed to the shift point.

IF you couldn't really feel the trans pull-down the engine when dropped in gear, and "slushy" everyplace, plus not feeling the shifts for "normal" driving it's going to be in the converter or the fwd clutch in the TH400 isn't holding very well.

Below is a clip of my car at the track, same basic set-up, 3.42 gears, launching at 1100rpms and shifting at 5000rpms. Listen to the engine when the car is moving out, launching, and after each shift. This is what one of those converters does behind a high torque Pontiac 455...........FWIW.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVdoLR-VzM

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by AG

I forgot, I dealt with Montgomery at UCC, here is the email train chronologically:

Montgomery,

The stamp designation on the converter is:

P1D
S BAL

It is supposed to be a tight 10” that couples very well and stalls at around 3200 rpm that is perfect for the motor it is behind. It was a very popular converter from Continental that the Pontiac community used. I understand you need to open it up and see what in it and then make the necessary modifications. How much for a restall? Should I just send it in to you?

Thanks, Tony

hmm,

A P1D is the tightest pump, so that’s interesting that it's as loose as you are describing. I'm not positive what the "S" is but the "BAL" is balanced. Did you see any other designations on it? I would hope to know what stator is in it without cutting it open, but it looks like we are on the road for putting her as tight as she can get, unless we are fighting another issue that we are unaware of?


Thank You,
Montgomery Ragland
Ultimate Converter Concepts

Morning Tony,


Got the converter opened up and looked over. Everything is spot on inside, going with your notes and description of how she is acting. In your situation it looks like you have a very low rpm torque producing monster. The course of action to get you tightened up will be some pump fin angle tweaks, along with going with a tighter full bladed falcon stator instead of your current pinto style. When you have a free moment if you'd like give me a call at the shop and I'll be happy to go over everything. You will be looking at the cut and clean, with the stator and machining, 350 + shipping.

Just let me know sir,


Thank You,
Montgomery Ragland


So everything looked good inside but it did not perform as it should have. Montgomery at UCC was perplexed and so am I.

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

He did take a guess as to what the problem was. Remember it is not how much HP the engine makes but how much torque.

Stan

Originally Posted by Cliff R

The torque production is NOT the issue. That engine isn't making any more and probably not as much as my engine, same heads, same cam, but I'm at 11.3 to 1 compression. I also used light internals so it revs like a 283 SBC on steroids and smacks the living chit out of the converter......and it holds it fine. It's just like you dumped the clutch on a stick shift car, locked solid from the stall speed to the shift point.

IF you couldn't really feel the trans pull-down the engine when dropped in gear, and "slushy" everyplace, plus not feeling the shifts for "normal" driving it's going to be in the converter or the fwd clutch in the TH400 isn't holding very well.

Below is a clip of my car at the track, same basic set-up, 3.42 gears, launching at 1100rpms and shifting at 5000rpms. Listen to the engine when the car is moving out, launching, and after each shift. This is what one of those converters does behind a high torque Pontiac 455...........FWIW.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVdoLR-VzM

So Cliff. How do you know if he cut your torque converter open it would be the same as the one he had cut open and was checking out?

[Cliff R]

Sorry, I don't completely understand the question?

I don't build them and wouldn't know what I was looking at.

Lenny however, knew Kriss, supposed to have worked with him at some point. Wouldn't ya think between Kriss and the folks at UCC that they would have got this converter in question figured out? Instead it's "slush" and doesn't do anything right anyplace........we'll probably never know exactly why at this point........IMHO.....

[Steve C.]

Kriss and Lenny were close friends, they shared converter knowledge but never actually worked together. When Kriss retired and closed Continental he went to visit Lenny at UCC.

"Dawn and I have come to the realization that it is time to think about our golden years, as we are not getting any younger. That said, we are overjoyed and extremely excited to announce that Montgomery Ragland is coming on board to eventually take over the helm of our beloved UCC,” said Ultimate converter Concepts founder and CEO, Lenny Croteau. This was in Sept of 2011

Prior to this Lenny would watch Montgomery tune and work his race car at the track.

At the time Lenny also stated he would stay on at UCC to work alongside and mentor Montgomery to teach him the intimate knowledge which has turned Ultimate Converter Concepts into one of the most successful racing torque converter manufacturers in the world, until they are 100-percent confident that the company will operate as it has for the last 15 years, by producing race-winning products and providing unmatched personal service.

In March 2019 When John sent my 10-inch Continental converter to UCC for an overhaul and to adjust the stall he worked with Lenny. Today I'm pretty sure Lenny has finally retired and Montgomery is in charge.


.

[Mr Anonymous]

I ran a UCC for years that worked EXTREMELY well for the combo I had at the time. It had low slippage at stall. Talked to Lenny a while back at PRI in 2019, seemed good. New combo, used one from PTC and very pleased.

I've used Hughes for street cars, and like them. Also had B&M, TCI, GER, and about anyone else that ever made a converter over the past 30 years. Some good, some seemed like nothing but metal cans filled with garbage. When you look at car ads written by idiots, you'd think that the "Stahl" company made all the converters out there.

ts good to have someone as knowledgeable as Cliff to work with as a vendor, his experience can be invaluable - just like some other folks on here.

[PAUL K]

EHTTFMF's!!!

[Verdoro 68]

Got my trans back from the shop and he insisted on supplying a converter for warranty purposes. He sent me home with a 12" converter built by PDQ in Sacramento.

Based on the numbers, it appears to have been a TCI Street Rodder converter at one time but it's been rebuilt and restamped as PDQ-C9X. According to their catalog it's intended to stall between 2100-2400. So, I've got a couple options to try.

BTW, I ended up ordering the 230/236 .510/.521 114LSA from Butler. My order is still 6-8 weeks out. It will be a while before I get this thing together, but I'll likely put the Continental converter in and see how it feels since it's a known quantity.

[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

Got my trans back from the shop and he insisted on supplying a converter for warranty purposes. He sent me home with a 12" converter built by PDQ in Sacramento.

Based on the numbers, it appears to have been a TCI Street Rodder converter at one time but it's been rebuilt and restamped as PDQ-C9X. According to their catalog it's intended to stall between 2100-2400. So, I've got a couple options to try.

BTW, I ended up ordering the 230/236 .510/.521 114LSA from Butler. My order is still 6-8 weeks out. It will be a while before I get this thing together, but I'll likely put the Continental converter in and see how it feels since it's a known quantity.

I hope that converter by TCI is a lot better than the TCI street fighter I had about 15 years ago. It didn't match my 455 well at all.. A little too tight for my liking
at stoplights ( lunging engine) and flash way too high with throttle stabbing. I have had this 10" Continental behind 2 different 455 combinations and has performed flawlessly.

[Verdoro 68]

The shell is TCI, but the guts have been reworked by PDQ. I have no idea what to expect from it.