[johnta1]

I had also thought (and read) that the Pattern cars came with 3.55 gear as standard.
So if the AC equipped cars had 3.23 then I probably need to do some figuring or changing. They also supposedly came with the Rally wheels, which I include. (Judge cars)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Look at enough invoice samples and you will have the correct info.
4spd AC didn't get HD STT

HD STT was $63
STT was $42

There are at least 4-5 M13 3spd Pattern cars documented by invoices.
I probably have them all in my crashed files.
They were HD STT - just like the 4spd cars other than the transmission.
$185 cheaper

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

If people aren't acknowledging the M13 cars
They are not representing the history thoroughly or correctly.
Just conveniently , or perhaps not even knowing they exist.

Your site gets a lot of browsers looking for correct and accurate info.
I'm just helping with proof-reading it. Not ragging on it.

[pvp44]

I will post my PHS tomorrow, still trying to decipher this infoealer order# 46967 or 86967.Zone # 03 32 (Marsh Pontiac, INC. 311 F>Lancaster Ave Ardmore PA. Ship date 02/13/69 Vin# 242379G130254

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pvp44

I will post my PHS tomorrow, still trying to decipher this infoealer order# 46967 or 86967.Zone # 03 32 (Marsh Pontiac, INC. 311 F>Lancaster Ave Ardmore PA. Ship date 02/13/69 Vin# 242379G130254

Your ship date sounds like a Pattern Judge range.
Order numbers are usually something like 00032 or 00081
Invoice numbers are usually 6 digits

There is a car listed from Marsh Pontiac
03 00019 -- 630257 -- 242379G126052 -- 991 -- 01C -- 04/08 -- Marsh Pontiac Ardmore PA
That one was built early - but shipped out late.

Marsh dealer code is 03 324

The Pattern Judges have the exact same options as each other based on Manual or Automatic

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pvp44

I will post my PHS tomorrow, still trying to decipher this infoealer order# 46967 or 86967.Zone # 03 32 (Marsh Pontiac, INC. 311 F>Lancaster Ave Ardmore PA. Ship date 02/13/69 Vin# 242379G130254

Here is a Pattern Sample with 4 speed
Order Number 00062
Invoice Number 537038

[johnta1]

pvp44, yours is a pattern Judge, it is what BVZ posted.
Pattern # 19 (D.O.N. or dealer order number)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by johnta1

pvp44, yours is a pattern Judge, it is what BVZ posted.
Pattern # 19 (D.O.N. or dealer order number.

His VIN and billing date don't match the other Marsh car #00019

He has
242379G130254
2/13/69 shipping date.
And sounds like a Non-Zone , Non-pattern order number

The other car is
242379G126052
And 4/08/69 shipping date

I hope he is able to post it on here.
Can see that he tried.

[north]

A common billing error I see on 69's (Judges and non Judges) is non AC cars with regular STT instead of HD STT. I've got at least a dozen examples. Since they both use the same option code (sales-361 and manufacturing-G80) I wonder how the billing system differentiated which price to charge and which label to apply on the invoice and window sticker?

[pvp44]

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/IMG_2023%20(5).jpg[/IMG]

[johnta1]

In the reply page, down below where you type is a button to upload your pic. (Manage Attachments)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pvp44

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/IMG_2023%20(5).jpg[/IMG]

When you get in the Reply Box to make a post -
- scroll down a little bit farther to another box below it.
Look for Manage Attachments - click that.

Then click - Choose File
It will open your photo directory on your computer.
Then click/select the picture you want to upload.

Then you have to click/select "Upload" in the right upper corner.
And it's done.

You have to type something in the reply box also , or it will say the message is too short.

[johnta1]

Updated the Pattern Judge Comments page.
Added the HD or 'no HD' on the comments.
Also the 3 sp changed to 'E' pattern.


Pattern Judge Table with Comments

[johnta1]

pvp44, Use the Reply button not the Quick Reply. There is more options.
(at least on my laptop, don't use phone)


The Quick Reply may have an advanced option, don't know don't use it.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

You are the Pattern Judge Man now John.

This is the glossary I was wondering if could be corrected..

[pvp44]

PHS Docs

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pvp44

PHS Docs

Yours is Non-Pattern .
Trimmed some fat by not getting Deluxe Seatbelts or SoftRay Glass ALL.
They didn't use the Zone Pattern Order.
A dealer or customer selected the items.

Early built car though.
Probably 02A or 02B on the trim tag.
Would have GTO emblem over the heater controls originally , and no Judge emblem on glovebox.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

[pvp44]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Yours is Non-Pattern .
Trimmed some fat by not getting Deluxe Seatbelts or SoftRay Glass ALL.
They didn't use the Zone Pattern Order.
A dealer or customer selected the items.

Early built car though.
Probably 02A or 02B on the trim tag.
Would have GTO emblem over the heater controls originally , and no Judge emblem on glovebox.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Yes, GTO emblem over heater controls and likely did not have glove box emblem though it did when I got it in 1998.Thanks for the info, anything else I should look for?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Would be good to know the build week from the trim tag.
Such as 02A 02B or etc...

Car is a little bit of a rule breaker being Non-Pattern and built that early.
We have to keep modifying with new discoveries .

[turbo69bird]

Somewhere in here I paired about my freinds pattern judge. If you look through my histiry you’ll fin a post inthe thread about the judge w custom paint. I posted his bun tag date in there. I dint think I’ve had his PHS before. But that may help you with some info. Believe it had his options also listed.


He’s a super private guy but if I can I’ll see if I can get a copy of his PhS if he has one