[Goatman]

Great, call us when you're 65...........

We'll be racing from now till then.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[WDCreech]

JKGTO, First I'll tell you that I won't even tow my GTO with a Chevy. I use a Ford. Second, not that it much matters, I already don't like you. You're talking about one of the nicest guys that I know in the racing circles and I'll bet that you have never even talked to him. I spoke with him at Witchita international Raceway in 1998 and even then he indicated that he would rather be running a Pontiac. He told me the names of everyone at Indian Adventures so I figured that he has one of their blocks in his future plans. I think that, before you down grade someone, you need to find out all that is behind his motive. In other words GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A$$!

Bill

[Steve Barcak]

Cheby power for a tow vehicle? C'mon! I use a 1961 Pontiac Catalina s/w. 455, 400thm and 4 wheel discs do the job. The less you spend on a tow vehicle and trailer, the more you have to put inot your race car. There are guys here in the Phx area with a $40,000 pick up truck and a $8000 trailer that race a 10 second car. When asked about their plans to "step up" they say they can't afford it because it is too expensive to run a fast Pontiac. Priorites, priorities, priorities. Many can acomplish more than they think if they apply themselves. Do the math, go figure.
Tom, not to nit pick but. Arnie was quite popular in 1964 running his "outdated" Pontiac stuff. His SD Tempest and blown '64 GTO were more than holding their own. At this time Mercury took note and offered Arnie a ride with them for 1965. The other main drivers for Merc was Nicholson, Sox and Shartman. Sox went to Plymouth in '65 (and the rest is history with that) so, Merc took in Arnie and gave him a new 427 SOHC Comet (gas and carbs). Arnie bent a valve at Pomona in '65 and couldn't get the parts to fix it. Nicholson was the main dog with Merc and Arnie had to take a back seat to him for parts availability. Arnie was still getting a lot of bookings (remember, Match racing was bigger and regular sanctioned events at that time) with his GTO. After a while, Bez said hell with Merc and went on to race Real Pontiac until about the end of 1971. He averaged 100 race dates a year. Staggering by todays standards for anyone. Can anyone imagine running a Blown fuel car 3 to 4 times a week, every week!? Year after year!? The man had a family too. How did he do that?! Amazing! That feat was common for the popular racers of the time too.
chebys in Pontiacs suck big time. Period. Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

[Goatman]

I always get a kick out of guys who rag on Chevy's and Ford's, then tow with them. Wrap your minds around this:

X vehicle and drivetrain is good enough to get you, your stuff, and your tubby Pontiac to the track and back, plus dinner and where ever else you end up going while staying over, but it's not good enough to race? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Always though old cars were cool to tow with, till I actually did it. Never again. They actually make pretty bad tow vehicles, and I did it in a 455 wagon.

Make mine a crew cab Chevy HD, with the 8.1L, Allision and leather please.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[Tom Vaught]

Steve, I do not consider it Nit Piking. I like
it when someone can add to the history of the man. Everything you have posted I agree with completely except the part about the $40,000 tow
trucks. How am I going to have any money to race
if everyone uses 61 catalina wagons instead of
Ford Power strokes. My stock will be worse than
it is now!

By the way, did the math on Arnie without my reading classes and was off by a few years. He is
only 68 vs 75 years old. JUST A KID! Tom V.

[Brian Baker]

Arnie has been gracious enough to drop by our OPRA July races at Mason-Dixon over the last 2-3 years, and I gotta' tell ya'...he really is operating on a shoestring budget.

This past summer we had a BBQ and invited his crew over for some free grub. They were most appreciative (especially when the trackburgers are "tofu-like").

He aims to please, however. He blew the R&P out of it on the 2nd pass of the day about 60' out. His main crewman had a new R&P in it and had it turned around and ready to go in less than 90 minutes. Amazing. Arnie was all set to make a final run but they wouldn't let him as the fire truck had already left for the day, so no "fast" cars were running at that point of the day.

When you'r ematch-racing or making exhibition runs on a budget, you have to run with what is the cheapest and most readily available parts. Unfortunately the traditional Pontiac V8 doesn't fit into this niche.

[Brian Baker]

I'm with Bruce on the tow vehicle, race car theory (as well as the GM tow vehicle for hauling).

I used to get cranked up over the Pontiac vs. the world issue. Now I don't. Chevy and Ford race cars are fun too.

Some of the most fun I've ever had at the track was helping crew for a friend with a '68 Nova running 10's. It didn't require much, helped him with basic stuff and checking tire pressures in the lanes.

Some of the most fun I've had spectating was just recently at a race at MIR in Budd's Creek, MD. We were cheering on a FORD !!! This guy named Chris Little from Pasadena, MD has a '90 Mustang with a 351W based engine that now measures 406 set everyone on there A$$ running mid 8's on a 10" slick, through the exhaust, with just a single 4-barrel and nitrous plate combo.

This is the guy that won the Outlaw Street race in Orlando late in 2002 that Keefer went to. He was running 8.60's on BFG drag radials.

He went 8.49 in the final at MIR, taking out a 68 Camaro running 8.60's with a nitrous smallblock. The real fun part was watching him take out a 10-second Honda in round one, followed by a 9-second twin turbo Supra in round 2. It was a 16 car field, heads up, 10" tire, one power adder, run whatcha brung affair. Sure was neat to see him stand it on the rear bumper in round 1 and 2, having to back out of it to bring it down, and still beating those Jap cars.

[JKGTO]

IM NOT DOWNGRADING ANYBODY. JUST STATING THE FACTS. I KNOW ARNIE IS A GOOD GUY. AND I LIKE CHEVROLETS. JUST NOT IN PONTIACS. SOME OF YOU GUYS NEED TO WAKE UP. YOU KEEP PUTTING WORDS IN PEOPLES MOUTHS. IF ARNIE WOULD RATHER RUN A PONTIAC THEN WHY DIDNT HE DO IT. YOU CANT KEEP ASKING OTHER PEOPLE TO FOOT THE BILL FOR YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO RUN A 9 SECOND SUPER STOCKER. ONE OF YOU GUYS GONNA FOOT THE BILL FOR ME? GUESS NOT. STEVE IS DOING AN ALL PONTIAC RACE. WHY CANT YOU ALL GET BEHIND HIS EFFORT. AND HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT PE TOO. ALL POLITICS BEHIND THAT RAG. NO ONE ELSE HAS THE GUTS TO TELL IT LIKE IT IS.

[Steve Barcak]

JK GTO. Thanks for your support on my project and events. Arnie is a great guy, I don't like the cheb in there either. He is not above criticism of the chev issue and will talk about it kindly. I'm not convinced that Arnie doesn't have money but, have put that issue behind me and am concentrating on my own projects. I would suggest the Beswick video to anyone who doesn't have it. Lots of neat info there.
Back to the towing issue. I understand about the need to support the US automobile market. If someone I know needs to buy a new car or truck, I encourage to buy American. But, economically, a new vehicle is a bad choice. Depreciation, plates, insurance, finance charges. Even with low rates, it is a lot of money. You could go very fast with a Pontiac with $40,000. I have towed every one of 500 (including about 300 of my current stock) or so cars to my junk yard with one of my Pontiac station wagons. People who see my yard cannot believe that but, it' true. Some cars I have driven as far as 1,500 miles round trip to get. I easily have over 100,000 miles towing cars with my wagons. Pontiacs are where it's at, everything I own (even my boat) has a Real Pontiac in it. I talk the talk and I walk the walk. The best towing wagons are the 1971-6 full size ones. I call them "Super Wagons". They were built with towing in mind and were the last in automobile evolutionary influence before the arabs and nader strapped it to us. The tailgate disappears into the floor, they have heavy leaf spring rears that minimize side sway and big brakes including 12" rear drums. Big, heavy comfortable car. I think the 1971 and '72 are the nicest looking. The 1961 I use doesn't tow as well but, I like the looks better. I have done alot to improve it. Those 1971-6 full size wagons make a good tow vehicle for someone who wants a Pontiac to tow with.

[Goatman]

"I talk the talk and I walk the walk."

"I have yet to go real fast. I want to."

All coming from the same guy. You seem to contradict yourself every other time you post. You like your wagons because you haven't towed with a real truck yet. Once you do, you'll see the light.

JK, I won't go to this event because:

A. It's in Arizona, I live in Mass.

B. No heads up racing. This, coming from a guy who claims he wants people to go fast. Bracket racing isn't about that at all. You race yourself and the elements. The guy in the other lane is doing the same.

C. Steve has done a wonderful job of pissing off all the top dogs here, and elsewhere, on this thread. I'm no where near one of them, but I'm coming up real quick and I'm not putting up with this crap either. There are plenty of other events where me and other PONTIAC people, even those with cars built AFTER 1982, will be appriciated.

"SO WERE ALL SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT PEOPLE THAT DONT HAVE A REAL JOB. THATS WHY ALL THOSE DRAG MAGAZINES WENT UNDER. NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH REAL JOBS TO SUPPORT PEOPLE THAT DONT HAVE REAL JOBS. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A PONTIAC RACE CAR ALSO BUT CANT AFFORD TO. SO I SHOULD GO BUY A CHEVY? NOT GONNA HAPPEN. MY CHEVY WILL BE MY TOW VEHICLE. I WILL WAIT IT OUT TILL I CAN AFFORD THE REAL DEAL."

Putting words in your mouth? I think not. Tell you what, you claim you can't afford a race car? Try running a Nitro powered anything for a season and then we'll see how long it takes you to go looking for people to help you with your bank book. Untill YOU'VE done it, you can't talk.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[Ron]

Arnie does not run a BBC. He runs a corporate motor. Difference......BBC heads will not bolt on to the block.

Ron

[Goatman]

Ron, gimme a break, its a Chevy.

Its not a Pontiac, and its not a Buick, and its not an Olds, and its not a Ford.

Its a Chevy and I'm sure EVERY racing class out there classifies it as such.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[Ron]

You don't deserve a break. It's not a BBC, it is a corporate block. BBC heads will not bolt onto it. There is a difference.

Ron

[Tim Corcoran]

For the record,

I am truely amazed at the knowledge and talent level of the people who are members of this board. I am honored to be associated with everyone of you. I never met a person that I couldn't learn something from. This has been an interesting thread. I have tried hard not to engage. Since the battles have subsided I dare to enter now in calmer waters. Steve did not ask me to write the article on the Pontiac Heaven race. It is true that I like to write even though I am not that good at it. Do you remember the article that ran in PE when Marty ran his GTO with a 400 Pontiac engine with fuel injection and turbos and ran some awesome times? I was really impressed with that particular issue of PE as it was just a great issue. I emailed Don Keefe and told him how great the article was. Unknown to me Don ran my email word for word in the next issue of PE with no editing. This was very exciting for me as I had never been in print before other than a couple articles in the local GTO club magazine. Any how I called Don Keefe and asked him if he would come to Phoenix and cover the Pontiac Heaven event. Steve had no idea I even had such an idea. I did it because I live in Phoenix, I love to have such an exciting event in my home town, for Steve to get some recognition and to help the event grow. Don Keefe is a really nice guy, although we haven't spoke in a while we have chatted on line several times and talked on the phone a few times. Unfortunately we have never met in person. Don Told me that he could not come to the event but that if I took some pictures and wrote an article he would run it in PE. One of the club members shot a bunch of great color slides as Don requested slides. I worked very hard on the article and also wrote detailed captions on about 60 color slides of show cars and action shots of the drag racing. This required many phone calls and research. I even had an aspiring writer girl friend at the time help me edit it since I was promised the article would run. I sent it all in and Don said it all looked good and it would be coming out in the next issue. I stood in front of everyone at the Cactus GTO club meeting and assured everyone in attendance that there would be an article in PE soon on Steve's race. Well it never ran and I was very disappointed. I called Don some time afterward and he informed me that he was no longer working for PE and he turned over all the materials to some one at PE. I can't remember who that some one was and it doesn't really matter. I hold no grudges to Don or anyone at PE. I subscribe to both PE and HPP. Yes I am disappointed with much of the new car articles and advertising in PE, Aztec, GMC trucks, minivan and such coverage. But they still have some cool stuff sometimes so I renew my subscriptions. If I were Steve I would allow any Pontiac with the engine from the factory or any traditional Pontiac powered car run at the event. This would appeal to a larger crowd and the event would grow, and maybe even get some magazine coverage. In fact I told Steve this and he was not very happy with me. On the other hand Steve is the organizer of the event and as Frank Sinatra said... On another note have you seen the February issue of CC? On page 93 there is a FULL PAGE AD on ***** enlargement formula. This in my opinion is the lowest of the low. This is an extreme case of whoring to the advertising money. Who wants to see this trash in a car magazine. I rest.

Tim C

65 LeMans, 3600lb. all steel, full interior, D-ports and a flat tappet cam, 11.01@120

[WDCreech]

Screw That! PE started as a traditional Pontiac magazine, but it is now FU. Steves event should stay as planned. I like racing against Chevys, Mopars and Fords, I can do that at about any track in the USA, but lets have this race for the traditional Pontiac people.

Bill

[ponchopete]

Not that my opinion matters much on this subject, I thought I'd throw my two cents in anyway.

-To oversimplify things, an engine is an air pump. It doesn't care what sheetmetal surrounds it, and it doesn't know what brand it is. They all each have their own set of pro's and con's. Would I put a Chevy in a Pontiac? No way. If a particular Pontiac is Chevy powered, and it's fast & well engineered, then I still respect the person who put it together. I don't necessarily like it, but as long as they're having fun with their vehicle and fellow enthusiasts, that's all that really matters. I like Pontiac engines because they're different from the norm, and, in my opinion, Pontiac had the best body styles. I also like being the underdog, as there's a lot of preconceptions out there among the ignorant about what you can and can't do with a Pontiac. I like proving those types of people wrong. However, all in all, if it's a V-8 powered domestic vehicle, then it's okay in my book. It doesn't matter what brand it is.

-The PE deal: For the most part, magazines have to try to be all things to all people for whatever subject the magazine covers if they want to make any money. Any information that is published on Pontiacs is better than not having anything out there at all, so I'd rather have PE around even if the coverage isn't everything I'd like it be.

-Arnie Beswick: Regardless of what he has and does campaign, he is a friendly, intelligent, proven, and influential racer that is very obviously capable of building a fast and competitive drag machine. Anybody who does that deserves respect, period.

-Steve and his event: I think Steve has largely been misunderstood on this thread. To meet him in person, you'd realize he is a friendly, intelligent, and helpful individual. He's very die-hard about Pontiacs, and because of that, has some strong opinions that can rub people the wrong way. However, for the small amount of time I've known him, it's safe to say that his intentions are not to offend anyone. Granted, his event would probably be larger and gain more coverage if he allowed corporate powered Pontiacs in, but I for one applaud him for sticking to his guns and putting the event on for true Pontiac power only. While an engine doesn't care what it's in, I feel that a Pontiac loses it's identity and appeal without Pontiac power in it. Also, with regard to the event being ran in a bracket format, in a perfect world, it would be heads-up instead. Heads-up is quite simply where it's at. However, with an event of this size that caters to a core group of enthusiasts, the bracket format becomes necessary to cover the wide range of E.T.'s that are posted with respect to a relatively small but diverse car count. There simply aren't large enough groups of cars running 12's, 11's, 10's, so on and so forth, to actually run a COMPETITIVE heads-up format. If the event has to be ran in bracket format, then so be it. I'd rather have the event around than not. Anything that promotes and preserves the Pontiac hobby is deserving of support and appreciation.

-Tow vehicles???? Who cares? This simply isn't a subject worth debating about. Besides, real men drive their car to the track. (That's a joke -- nobody get up on the tires about it!)

Last, I'd like to say that I think this board and most of it's people are great. I've learned a bunch from this board, and it's nice to help out fellow enthusiasts when I can. It's great to have such a large and diverse group of people who share an interest in Pontiacs.

"My car would be fast if it had an engine, transmission, and rear axle in it."

[Steve Barcak]

Goatman,
You use a code name, I don’t know who you are, that’s Ok as the rules allow it. If I knew your name I would use it, I use mine. You have cut me down on just about everything I say and insulted me repeatedly. You seem to get everything I say backwards. On the “I walk the walk and talk the talk” statement. It is not contradictory, I was referring to using Pontiac power for all uses, towing, boating, driving and racing. I use nothing but Pontiac power. I think people here, for the most part, understand that. I even built a 10K watt generator that was powered by a ’61 Tempest 195 slant 4 (that’s real Pontiac power LOL) There is nothing contradictory about that. Also, I did not say that a Station wagon towed as well as an expensive truck. I have been in nice trucks and they pull very well. I was comparing costs, that’s all.
I would like to have heads up racing. I am open to what would be the most appealing to the racers and the show crowd. Poncho Pete understands the situation, as I think others do too. Until enough guys that are racing want it, it will be bracket racing. I offer extra lanes for those who want to make exhibition runs, grudge matches or whatever. I am doing what I can to promote vintage Pontiac power. How is this “pissing everyone off”? Most of the return posts here have been positive, not negative.
Also new for this year, I am renting the track for a second day. The day after “Pontiac Heaven Drags” which is Sat, April 5 will be another event open to all 1981 and older American cars and trucks. At this event racers can run other brands and cars with transplants too and will include a swap meet and car show. Any engine, any combo. I thought about an open event for all years but, that is done all over already.
Finally, your quote that “

Steve has done a wonderful job of pissing off all the top dogs here, and elsewhere, on this thread. I'm no where near one of them, but I'm coming up real quick and I'm not putting up with this crap either. “
*What are you referring to about “ not putting up with this crap either?” Would you please explain to all of us here what you mean by that statement?
* Who are all these “top dogs” that I have, allegedly, “pissed off”? How have I “pissed them off”? * What makes someone a “top dog” How many are there? 10? 25? 50? 100?
Let them speak for themselves if they are “pissed off” as you state.
I have no intention to “piss off” anyone. Also, I do not see people “pissed off” here and I have received no negative emails on the subject. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me or anyone else for that matter. But “pissed off”?
There are hundreds and hundreds here reading these posts. To show my sincerity here, if your statements are factual, let these “top dogs” post a reply on this subject with their names and their issues with me. I will answer each one and either explain my posts or apologize here if I was, indeed, wrong. Of course, if you are overstating your claims about me “pissing off all the top dogs” I would expect you to do the same and apologize to me. I would like to clear the air (if your statements are true) with the members of this board.

[FantomPoncho]

I'm new to this BB and relatively new to Pontiacs and drag racing. Also, I gather from what I've read (though I may be wrong), that most of you are in the automotive industry for a living. This is simply a hobby for me, as I make my living from something completely different. In a way, you could call me an outsider.

I happen to know Steve personally and am a volunteer crew man for his fueler. I also gather that most of you who have criticized him don't know him personally. From my experience, Steve is the most accessible, open person I know. One of my first meetings with him was when I bought some parts from him for my car. It was a set of cylinder heads. After I told him what I was planning on doing with the car, he said that I could call him anytime for suggestions or advice. This was very suprising to me because prior to meeting him, most shops and mechanics around here either new nothing about Pontiac power (and wouldn't admit it) or told me they couldn't do anything for me. Or they would suggest I save myself the headache and drop a chevy in.

My first vehicle was a mid '70s chevy pickup with a 350 4 speed. As a teenager, I was willing to do anything to learn more about engines and hot rodding. In general, nearly everyone I talked to would sooner spit on me then give me advice. This is not the case with nearly every single person I've met in the Pontiac "world". 3 years ago I would've laughed if you told me I could rebuild an engine by myself. But with the generous help of people like Steve, I now have a beautiful 66 Lemans, 421 powered that was built almost entirely by myself, including assembly of the cylinder heads.

For someone who makes their living building engines, giving away your secrets is like giving away your paycheck. I completely understand that. But for someone like Steve, Pontiacs are not how he makes his living, but it is a way of life. There is a big difference. It is the same for me. I know I won't be giving away the farm if someone asks me the difference between a 350 chevy and a 350 Pontiac.

As for Steve not letting corporate power to his event, it is his event and he funds it, so it is his choice. It just seems that Wangers took it personally that he couldn't bring his corporate powered Pontiac. No one else, including Arnie Beswick, seemed to be offended by this. In fact, last year, Arnie went out of his way to bring Pontiac power to his event. ANYONE is aloud to attend his event. I suspect if John Force or Kenny Bernstein showed up, Steve would let them in, but he'd tell them to leave their cars at the gate. This is because this event celebrates the engine and not necessarily the car. I think this is why PE refuses to acknowledge the event or anything else done by Steve.

Regardless of how fast Steve has gone now or in the past, how many of you know someone who has gone out of his way to save hundreds of Pontiacs from the crusher, or who runs a yard strictly for Pontiacs? I've seen Steve take phone calls from someone he doesn't even know and proceed to an hour on the phone freely giving his knowledge and experience. If there were more people like him, it would be a lot easier to find that steering wheel for your '68 Bird, or A/C ducts for your '72 GTO. Because of Steve's efforts, there are more classic Pontiacs on the road. Now who can criticize that?

[Goatman]

Steve:

Bruce A. Lopes Jr.
44 Flagg Swamp Road
Freetown, MA 02717
(508) 353-6775

I have nothing to hide.

Look at your statements and see the responces. Enough said. You seem to think because you use Pontiac motors that that makes you "hard core". Guys like you and JK aren't hard core, you're hard headed. And you and guys that are like minded are directly responsible for the hobby dying.

Purposely excluding anything other than "Pontiac" motors in your events and in your personal life doesn't entitle you to anything. You wonder why PE won't cover you? There's your answer. You go out of your way to exclude over half their readership by not allowing any REAL Pontiac made ofter 1982 to participate. Do the math and you'll realize that Pontiac has been making cars with Chevy power for longer than they've been making what your definition of a muscle car is. Factor in the normal aging process, and you can quickly see why there are WAY more Chevy powered Pontiacs around than the other way.


Who wouldn't want a car that can get 30 MPG, run 13's out of the box, and out-brake and out-handle anything "traditionaly" Pontiac? No one. Since you have a bracket racing program, I'd be just as sucessful in a Sunfire as I would be in a GTO. The reason for exclusion??????? NONE, except the possiblity that you're afraid of getting whupped by a Chevy. Since we all know they're faster, why even be ashamed? And since it's a bracket program anyway, who cares?????? NO ONE.

I guess it would be kinda hard to make two qualifying ladders instead of one, huh? Probably be just as hard to get the track announcer to say: "Coming up is the corporate powered Pontiac bracket......." You're right, that would be too much in return for doubling or tripling your attendance.


I'm insulting you? No, you've got that backwards. You're insulting true, HARD CORE Pontiac owners.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[Ron]

Fanthom Poncho....Wangers does not own a corporate powered poncho. He was wearing Pontiac blue long before your were born and will till his last breath. You did a piss poor job or researching your facts. Poor research on your part. BTW, it is Wangers magazine and he can do whatever he wants and Steve can do what he wants with his event.

Ron