[GTO]

Has this 'Grain flow theory' ever been proven? The same argument comes up with Aluminum rods, forged or billet. Don't the Top Fuel guys run Billet cranks? If a forging was stronger I'm sure they would be the first guys to run them. Not trying to start a pissing match here! LOL. ... ERic.

[Tim Corcoran]

My guess is forgings will be available early to mid 2007. Prior to that you will see promisses of much earlier dates and lots of people holding their breath. Don't hold up any projects waiting for a forging. Let's hope when they do come out that the forging is done well and the machining is good. Does pro stock use forgings or billets? How about top fuel?

Tim C

[Herb Hagan]

No theory...Fact

[Brian Baker]

Top Fuel uses billet cranks. Pro teams with heavily sponsored budgets may only use one for a half-dozen passes or so...and then they throw it away. They turn up on Ebay from time to time for around $150, and after machining to remove cracks, are perfect for lower HP applications.

The argument that if forged were stronger they would use them instead of billet is moot. The teams purchase these cranks in bulk quantities from the manufacturer's and for them (believe it or not) the turn around time on getting them is quicker than for us. Manufacturer's can turn out enmasse the same crank way ahead of time for them because they know they'll get the bulk orders. With us, we have to wait in line for them to "shut down the line" and reconfigure it for a Pontiac crank.

[GTO]

If it's 'fact' and not a theory then there must be some proof like non destructive or 'destructive' tests out there somewhere. I've been trying to find out about this grain thing in Aluminum rods. I've got BME's which are forged and I've been told to go with Billets instead. But there seems to be a 50/50 split in 'theories'.

I can see where a Top Fuel team would like the 'mass produce' billets. But since these guys have such big budgets you'd think that if forgings were better, they would run them. I'm sure they could order up a bunch of forgings. If you throw a stick of billet in the lath or a forging, what's the difference? I know as a driver, if there is something better out there for approx. the same price, and it could keep you off the wall one day, I'd buy it. They probably have not moved up to forged cranks in Top Fuel yet 'cause those Hemi's aint putting out enough power yet! LOL! We'll show them how it's done. ... Eric

[BVR421]

Originally Posted by GTO

you'd think that if forgings were better, they would run them. I'm sure they could order up a bunch of forgings. If you throw a stick of billet in the lath or a forging, what's the difference?Eric

I think the difference is, its easy to find a billet blank, where the hell do you find forged blanks? If you find a plant able and willing to produce quality forged steel blanks you are half way there. Then all you have to do is convince a grinder to shut down and retool for a handful of Pontiac cranks.
Im ready for 2 forged cranks right now but Im not going to hold my breath for new ones.
and for the smartasses out there, yes I did bid heavily on the last 990 that was on ebay.

[JD]

There is some interesting information on this subject on this forum.

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...b75446ba06d53a

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Top Fuel uses billet cranks. Pro teams with heavily sponsored budgets may only use one for a half-dozen passes or so...and then they throw it away. They turn up on Ebay from time to time for around $150, and after machining to remove cracks, are perfect for lower HP applications.

The argument that if forged were stronger they would use them instead of billet is moot. The teams purchase these cranks in bulk quantities from the manufacturer's and for them (believe it or not) the turn around time on getting them is quicker than for us. Manufacturer's can turn out enmasse the same crank way ahead of time for them because they know they'll get the bulk orders. With us, we have to wait in line for them to "shut down the line" and reconfigure it for a Pontiac crank.

FWIW: A Quality forged made crank is stronger then a billet. But the initial cost to do forgings makes the billet cheaper to produce in smaller quantities.
Either way we have to take what we can get. ;(

[Tom Vaught]

Have to agree with most of what is printed in the link, BUT,

CLEAN STEEL is CLEAN STEEL, PERIOD.

Aircraft quality steel is not the same as Bearing Grade steel. The "Timkin Bearing" grade steel is very clean vs normal 4340 steel.

I agree that the "billet" manufacturing process is a very good way to get rid of issues in the steel.

A Forging that was made with clean steel with be in my mind better than a billet BUT if the forging is made in a dirty environment with dirty materials, then the crank will NOT be as good as the Billet.

Moldex was supposed to have Tom McQueen's crank done is 10 weeks. It took 9 months because they waited for GOOD STEEL BILLET material. I think it was worth the wait, personally.

Tom V.

[tempest455]

Wade, what's the status???

[Half-Inch Stud]

""""""Cross drilling forces the oil pressure to try and overcome combustion pressure of 1000 plus psi which and translate to 10,000 psi at the bearing. """"""

Personally, I doubt that statement. And will have to sit in front of a crank & block awhile before posting back. Meanwhile, ponder that the PMD factory simultaneously optimized the crank-drilling for cross-sectional strength Main-to-throw, and oil feed timing.

Also, ponder Centrigfugal is a mutual force for non-cross-drilled and cross-drilled arms. Always tossing oil into the rod journal. ALWAYS negating Feed-Pressure at the Main Journal holes.
-----------------------------------------------------
"All the latest in scoop oil holes" sounds good.
Does this crankshaft Reccommend "The Latest" in Main Bearing groove distance and position?

[Tom Vaught]

You are one thread off, HIS on your reply about the crossdrilled thread.

Tom V.

[BVR421]

more like "half a thread off" (8-)

[Jack Gifford]

Of all the things I've been called, at least nobody ever accused me of being "one thread off"!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I'm seeing people posting on stength issues and such?
95% of the Pontiac racers aren't going to be even close to pushing the limits of any overseas Billet or Steel crank.

Both of these cranks will support over safely 900 hp if all the rules are followed and everything set.

The other 5% aren't gonna use them anyway.

The percentage of broken Cast steel cranks is under 1% as it is. And that's doing what most other manufactures or builders wouldn't attempt anyway.

I have seen as many factory cast Pontiac cranks broke as Chinese cranks.

[BVR421]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

The other 5% aren't gonna use them anyway.

just remember Dude, "no good deed goes unpunished"

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by BVR421

just remember Dude, "no good deed goes unpunished"

Lost me on that one.

But if you took it wrong I was saying that the other 5% will be high hp applications including 1500hp plus power adder deals with all the bells & whistles, lightweight and knife edged, etc. etc.
When your looking for all that extra hp. A 72/75 lb Chinese crank isn't what your looking for.

[Region Warrior]

If All Pontiac and BOP, P-Dude are sellling them, you can bet thier top shelf.

Saving up

[Thumpin455_GTO]

Well this thread was only 400 days old and buried nicely back there... here it is again..

check the dates...

[Tom Vaught]

You check the dates, wow! Blame HIS for that deal.

I have seen the cranks. One was at the PRI show in December 2006.

Tom V.