[unruhjonny]

thanks!

to bring this back to the discussion of “rubber rods” (a new term for me!) vs earlier SD rods vs 58-62 rods…
it looks like the older stuff all the info is there;

1) what info is there to compare the (66+?)69-78 rods against the earlier ones?

2) so what might stop a person running an earlier engine with the later cast rods?

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

thanks!

to bring this back to the discussion of “rubber rods” (a new term for me!) vs earlier SD rods vs 58-62 rods…
it looks like the older stuff all the info is there;

1) what info is there to compare the (66+?)69-78 rods against the earlier ones?

2) so what might stop a person running an earlier engine with the later cast rods?

The connecting rods sometimes referred to as the rubber rods are made from 58-62. Next came the Nodular Arma steel rods 63-67 (may have went into 68) rods which had a slightly lighter I beam versus the 68 and up nodular rods. The rods from 68 and later are all close to the same except the 73-78 eliminated the lube hole in the cap to spray toward the cam. New rod bearings do not have provisions for the oiling anyway, so that is no big loss.

You can switch any of the rods around, it just affects the balancing. The rotating assembly ends up a couple percent off. Most of the extra weight on the nodular rods is at the piston end, so most of the difference in weight is cut in half on the bob weight. In other words the extra weight of the nodular rods is more on the piston end, which often times mean you can swap the rods back and forth a not notice as much difference in balancing a you might expect.

[TXSTARFIRE]

Interesting thread. It is kind of fun to read through the PY forum and find out all of the things I did wrong years ago. I put my motor together in 1978 when I was going to tech school. At the time the 58-62 rods were supposed to be the ones to use so I did. My dad had a 1960 Catalina with 186,00 miles on it so I pulled the rods out of that motor. Didnt replace the bolts or resize them, just put them on the pistons. Worked out OK, I put 50,000 plus miles on the car with 4.11 gears and shifted at 6000 RPM. 1967 GTO with 400 and headers. Ran a best of 12.99 but usually 13.20s with slicks and open exhaust. 13.50s on street tires and thru the mufflers. Been setting in the garage for 26 years and just fired it up again a couple weeks ago.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by TXSTARFIRE

Interesting thread. It is kind of fun to read through the PY forum and find out all of the things I did wrong years ago. I put my motor together in 1978 when I was going to tech school. At the time the 58-62 rods were supposed to be the ones to use so I did. My dad had a 1960 Catalina with 186,00 miles on it so I pulled the rods out of that motor. Didnt replace the bolts or resize them, just put them on the pistons. Worked out OK, I put 50,000 plus miles on the car with 4.11 gears and shifted at 6000 RPM. 1967 GTO with 400 and headers. Ran a best of 12.99 but usually 13.20s with slicks and open exhaust. 13.50s on street tires and thru the mufflers. Been setting in the garage for 26 years and just fired it up again a couple weeks ago.

Sounds like stuff we all did back before we had the internet. How did we survive. LOL

[GTO-relic]

Originally Posted by TXSTARFIRE

Interesting thread. It is kind of fun to read through the PY forum and find out all of the things I did wrong years ago. I put my motor together in 1978 when I was going to tech school. At the time the 58-62 rods were supposed to be the ones to use so I did. My dad had a 1960 Catalina with 186,00 miles on it so I pulled the rods out of that motor. Didnt replace the bolts or resize them, just put them on the pistons. Worked out OK, I put 50,000 plus miles on the car with 4.11 gears and shifted at 6000 RPM. 1967 GTO with 400 and headers. Ran a best of 12.99 but usually 13.20s with slicks and open exhaust. 13.50s on street tires and thru the mufflers. Been setting in the garage for 26 years and just fired it up again a couple weeks ago.

https://classics.nascar.com/video/gA...Xn_a~kSa0uCpSx

you mean like this ? there's nothing "wrong" with it. 8 Pontiacs with SD421 motors as high qualifiers starting the NASCAR Firecracker 250 in 1962 at Daytona, dominating the race throughout. With forged GM rods going 160-165mph for nearly 2 hours straight wide open, to the boards. Build the same engine today using the same parts it's capable of the same thing. You didn't heat treat your rods ?

https://classics.nascar.com/video/gA...Xn_a~kSa0uCpSx

[TXSTARFIRE]

relic, I think your examples are of motors with Super Duty rods and not the 58-62 forged rods. No I did not heat treat them. Just knocked the old pistons off and put the new (used) pistons on. They were TWR forged 30 over flat tops, which I guess are heavy by what I read here. And no I did not balance the engine, I did everything wrong but had what I thought were good results. This was my first car that I bought in 1975 before I had my liscence. It did not get used gently, but the motor is still in the car today and still runs.

[Formulajones]

What about the heads, intakes, ignition systems and the hords if other Chinese crap everyone is buying. Even most of the parts "claimed" USA made still come from China and other places first

You may as well get off that train cause USA made don't mean chit anymore.
Like I said before whether people want to admit it or not you've got something off shore on or in your engine whether you like it or not. You're in the wrong hobby if you're worried about it.

I find usually the ones that squawk the most drive a foreign car with a USA sticker on it. Talk about hypocrites.

What all this really boils down too is people are too cheap to buy the good stuff. While I understand budgets and everyone is different, it doesn't mean one method or another is right or wrong.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

What about the heads, intakes, ignition systems and the hords if other Chinese crap everyone is buying.

Don't be "everyone".

Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.

Every dollar NOT spent on Communist Crap is a win for our economy.

[sdbob]

I'll pay extra if I have to for U.S. made products. I try to buy from local businesses. Asking is it made in USA?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Don't be "everyone".

Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.

Every dollar NOT spent on Communist Crap is a win for our economy.

I agree, just funny to me how people here want to cry about it and likely don't realize they are doing it themselves anyway.

[Dragncar]

I just want to race without being called a Communist !
I draw the line at cranks and rods, No Chi Com heads for me .
But....................... I do have some Speedmaster T400 parts.
Its a tough deal racing these days without some overseas stuff.
Even the good valves come from Argentina !

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I just want to race without being called a Communist !
I draw the line at cranks and rods, No Chi Com heads for me .
But....................... I do have some Speedmaster T400 parts.
Its a tough deal racing these days without some overseas stuff.
Even the good valves come from Argentina !

This is exactly what I was talking about without getting political and having this thread closed. You have decided Chinese cranks are OK and rods as well. You have decided Chinese heads are not OK. That is just fine in my book. It's your personal decision. If we want to remain in this hobby which is very small and getting smaller every year, do we really want to make blanket rules about how to build engines and what parts inside make us a "patriot" or a "communist"? I am nearing 70 years old and the finish line is in site. For me, I make a concerted effort to "buy American", whenever I can. But I am not going to let this pursuit consume me as the only thing I can accomplish every day. Life is too short IMO. When buying high dollar items like home heating systems, appliances, tools, and yes car parts, I really make an effort to buy American whenever possible, almost always paying more for the product, or accepting a lower rated product to buy American and then adding an extended warranty to offset the lower quality American product. That is about the limit of what I personally feel I can afford to do. My "American" home heating system and appliances still contain some foreign components, just no way around it. Even my 100% American made TV, "Element Brand", made in Detroit, USA, has some foreign circuit boards inside. You can spend your whole life going down this rabbit hole. It's almost as complicated as having a consensus decision about what determines if your Pontiac V-8 is a "real" Pontiac.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I just want to race without being called a Communist !
I draw the line at cranks and rods, No Chi Com heads for me .
But....................... I do have some Speedmaster T400 parts.
Its a tough deal racing these days without some overseas stuff.
Even the good valves come from Argentina !

I hope that isn’t an internal T400 part like a drum that could come up thru the floor. That is right up there with their connecting rods, but at least I have never heard of any of SM’s rods that anyone has even been able to make work.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Jay S

I hope that isn’t an internal T400 part like a drum that could come up thru the floor. That is right up there with their connecting rods, but at least I have never heard of any of SM’s rods that anyone has even been able to make work.

Yes they are forward and direct drums, 300M input and intermediate shafts, 36 element Super Sprag and oversized center support. 8 frictions and steels drums.
I am more worried about a cast iron drum than I am about a billet aluminum drum. Iron is much more brittle and way heavier.
I was planning on using one of their SFI cases but I will put this stuff in a OEM case with a blanket. maybe the big plastic SFI trans cover they make. or I might make my own out of 1/4" steel. My track would let me do it. Stronger than any blanket.
I took the parts to a local transmission shop that builds racing 400s, he likes the parts.
If you lunch a transmission at least it down not take your engine out. Tore up a few.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Yes they are forward and direct drums, 300M input and intermediate shafts, 36 element Super Sprag and oversized center support. 8 frictions and steels drums.
I am more worried about a cast iron drum than I am about a billet aluminum drum. Iron is much more brittle and way heavier.
I was planning on using one of their SFI cases but I will put this stuff in a OEM case with a blanket. maybe the big plastic SFI trans cover they make. or I might make my own out of 1/4" steel. My track would let me do it. Stronger than any blanket.
I took the parts to a local transmission shop that builds racing 400s, he likes the parts.
If you lunch a transmission at least it down not take your engine out. Tore up a few.

Ah. I was afraid it was billet steel drums from SM. Should be much less likely to have an issue with a billet Aluminum drum safety wise.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Ah. I was afraid it was billet steel drums from SM. Should be much less likely to have an issue with a billet Aluminum drum safety wise.

I would like to run this. Looks very interesting. Fixes a lot of T400 issues.
But 3K
I already spent 1,500+ on the SM stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpR-flNihKg

[steve25]

How did this go from rods to trans parts?