[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Olds has an aftermarket block?

Yes, Rocket Racing in Wisconsin stepped to the plate. It seems to be very high quality piece.

[chiefbigb]

It's just a bad situation no matter how you look at it. I agree they should test all of them before they are shipped out. I know step one at the Butlers shop is test the block every which way possible BEFORE they do any machining on the block and return it it if there are any quality issues. That's how it's done.

[steve25]

Ok, I am at a loss here, what's unclear about what it posted?

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by steve25

Ok, I am at a loss here, what's unclear about what it posted?

How a Bars Leaks won't work in a race engine? Care to elaborate?

Funny, because I've used it in dirt track engines and it worked just fine. Why would it be any different in a race engine than a street engine? The chemical reaction doesn't know what type of an engine it's in, it plugs the porosity holes cures, and it's fixed, never leaks again.

I know that I'm not the only person that has used it in a race engine without incident.

I believe, John Langer eluded that he has used it in his engines, if you check his posts further back on the subject.

[PAUL K]

I said I wasn't going to comment further, but if I was going to I'd say ..... Leaking water happens but is unacceptable. An engine block can be machined every which way you can imagine but shouldn't need to be repaired. I know first hand that AP and IA will stand behind any new block they sell and have even helped out with issues that happened long after they had any obligation. KRE has been reluctant to help after the point of sale... However I do know of one fellow that had porosity issues with a pair of their heads and they helped him down the road.
It should be understood the aftermarket Pontiac blocks have more issues because they are a much lower volume item. But you do get issues occasionally with other aftermarket blocks and they are willing to help out when the block is still "new" but no so much down the road after the block has been raced.... Bob and Frank have helped guys long after they should've.

But as I stated earlier I am not going to comment.

EHTTFMF!

[John Langer]

I have zero sealant in my engine. Never had a block leak. Had heads leak but never a block.

[John Langer]

If we keep bashing manufacturers that make zero profit bringing a product to the market, they will stop. Then people will bash them that they don't make it anymore. If I spent $85k on a killer no expense race engine that was dyno tested and when I finally received it, it leaked water, I would bitch to the builder, not the part manufacturer. That's just me though.

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by John Langer

If we keep bashing manufacturers that make zero profit bringing a product to the market, they will stop. Then people will bash them that they don't make it anymore. If I spent $85k on a killer no expense race engine that was dyno tested and when I finally received it, it leaked water, I would bitch to the builder, not the part manufacturer. That's just me though.

Sorry John, but that makes zero sense to me...The engine builder cant be responsible for porosity of the part unless they are the one that chooses said part...Some of these issues dont show up during the machining/build process...

Are you seriously saying that if your engine ended up leaking water, through the casting, that you'd blame Tony Bischoff?

[John Langer]

Originally Posted by opeliac

Sorry John, but that makes zero sense to me...The engine builder cant be responsible for porosity of the part unless they are the one that chooses said part...Some of these issues dont show up during the machining/build process...

Are you seriously saying that if your engine ended up leaking water, through the casting, that you'd blame Tony Bischoff?

Every set of heads he has done for me leaked. He fixed the leaks before giving them to me. I paid to get them fixed. They didn't leak from anything he did to them. He didn't send a sub par part out the door. If the engine builder didn't chose said part but the customer did, is it the customers issue? If you buy a part and there is a chance it won't be manufactured or machined properly due to the company manufacturing it does it as a hobby not a business, fix it and move on or go chevy where there is less of a chance for defects. I don't blame anyone. You get what you pay for in low volume cast parts. Core shift, porisoty, soft castings, etc. Buick and olds guys would kill for the stuff we have. These are race parts, not a new gmc truck off the show room floor that has a warranty, 3 year, 36k miles.

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by John Langer

Every set of heads he has done for me leaked. He fixed the leaks before giving them to me. I paid to get them fixed. They didn't leak from anything he did to them. He didn't send a sub par part out the door. If the engine builder didn't chose said part but the customer did, is it the customers issue? If you buy a part and there is a chance it won't be manufactured or machined properly due to the company manufacturing it does it as a hobby not a business, fix it and move on or go chevy where there is less of a chance for defects. I don't blame anyone. You get what you pay for in low volume cast parts. Core shift, porisoty, soft castings, etc. Buick and olds guys would kill for the stuff we have. These are race parts, not a new gmc truck off the show room floor that has a warranty, 3 year, 36k miles.

I know exactly what they are...I've just always lived by the motto of, "if you cant do it right, then dont do it"...

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by John Langer

Every set of heads he has done for me leaked. He fixed the leaks before giving them to me. I paid to get them fixed. They didn't leak from anything he did to them. He didn't send a sub par part out the door. If the engine builder didn't chose said part but the customer did, is it the customers issue? If you buy a part and there is a chance it won't be manufactured or machined properly due to the company manufacturing it does it as a hobby not a business, fix it and move on or go chevy where there is less of a chance for defects. I don't blame anyone. You get what you pay for in low volume cast parts. Core shift, porisoty, soft castings, etc. Buick and olds guys would kill for the stuff we have. These are race parts, not a new gmc truck off the show room floor that has a warranty, 3 year, 36k miles.

Really, every set?
You must be unlucky...
Haven't heard anyone mention that on any Tigers, E's, CV1s, Hi-ports, etc.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Really, every set?
You must be unlucky...
Haven't heard anyone mention that on any Tigers, E's, CV1s, Hi-ports, etc.

You didn't mention Edelbrock. So I will add that ALL SIX of the first run E-heads we had for the Grocery Getter leaked water. 1 set had to be pressure ceramic sealed. The other 4, GM tablets took care of them. It seems when they began putting the castings through the HIP process, it helped allot.

[JSPONT]

There are plenty of guys running fast with our brand, hopefully this is not the norm.
I guess pressure checking the block before the machine work would be step 1

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by John Langer

If we keep bashing manufacturers that make zero profit bringing a product to the market, they will stop. Then people will bash them that they don't make it anymore. If I spent $85k on a killer no expense race engine that was dyno tested and when I finally received it, it leaked water, I would bitch to the builder, not the part manufacturer. That's just me though.

No, that's not just you John. That's people who race low production custom race engines and realize that you have to work through problems to be successful. We would all love to have every part be perfect, never leak anything, last for years and win every race. Not very realistic though. I also agree with John about little to zero profit in these special hard engine parts for Pontiac's. Companies like All Pontiac make these parts because they LOVE Pontiacs. You could probably make a bigger profit delivering newspapers. If the defect is serious, talk to the vendor. If the defect is tiny, drop a couple GM tablets in the radiator just like GM does on the assembly line and go racing. BTW, we ran a 7lb. cap on our water cooled race cars.

[Stan Weiss]

Since we are talking water sprinkler / atomizer systems. lol Is anyone running a pressurized cooling system and if so what psi?

Stan

[John Langer]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Since we are talking water sprinkler / atomizer systems. lol Is anyone running a pressurized cooling system and if so what psi?

Stan

12 psi at 80 degrees or under. 19 psi at 90 degrees-110 degrees. 21 psi at 120-140 degrees.

[F/S GTO]

I'm not bashing KRE just pointing out my experience. I have no problem with using stop leak to fix the problem I had, cracked two 50 year old stock blocks in the last couple years and decided I was done spending a bunch of money on 50 year old stuff only to have that fail. Someone said that this doesn't happen with oem stuff,really? Thats why GM was loading up coolant systems in brand new cars from the factory with the stop leak pellets at one time.
If you want to go racing you do what it takes to make it happen!

[Dragncar]

A fast Chevy is a fast Chevy. A fast Pontiac is just cool.

[Mark G]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

A fast Chevy is a fast Chevy. A fast Pontiac is just cool.

And fast is fast does not matter to me I just love fast cars period...

[taff2]

Poor quality control is poor quality control, we all moan about the Chinese rubbish quality control,but I see it all around the World, US, over here in the UK . The best way to make any manufacturer step up their game is to stop buying their products until they improve them, not say 'Oh, we should be grateful for what we can get'.
What about a guy like me , I build my own engines so can't blame the engine builder, an aftermarket block will owe me well over $5000 by the time it gets over here to me, trying to then get it fixed if it's faulty would be very expensive and time consuming. Send it back to the US to be fixed or replaced? Who's going to pay the $1000 shipping fees? And the $1500 import duty and taxes when it comes back in to this country? If the cast product is porous - find another foundry. I don't sell poor quality and I don't accept it.