[Aaron Quinton]

What it does say is the guy looking at the sheet knows the rpm spread based on his trans ratios, maximizes area under the hp curve based on rpm range defined by the trans ratios and knows how much power the car will take on the hit. He also does a timing swing after fixing the the fuel curve to optimize timing vs rpm. The Dyno sheet interpreter knows what he's doing.

Originally Posted by chiefbigb

That talking dyno must not have to pay to maintain that engine.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

SO.........? LMAO!

GTO George

You have such a little ass (you have shown it so many times George) so that laughing probably did not take long.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

You have such a little ass (you have shown it so many times George) so that laughing probably did not take long.

Tom V.

NOPE......not at all!



GTO George

[chiefbigb]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I had no idea. My refrence was to the valvetrain of the engine. Sounds like a spring eater. But then again what do I know anyway.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Racers also know that very cool temps will give you more HP. He was flying never the less.


GTO George

Its not night and day difference in power. And who cares, ran what it ran. Sick of the "mineshaft air" stuff. It was on a track and not on a dyno.
Our track (Samoa) has those all the time. Its on the beach, ocean on one side, bay on other. Upper Nor Cal. 70 deg is a warm day in the summer. More like 62 is normal and the first few time trials at 9 o'clock its in the 50s all the time. Best is when there is a little of that summer coastal fog in the air. Car runs a couple hundredths better maybe.

And 414. Bet it was more. Tried to tell you guys Mike said they were not flowed the last few times JM worked on them. Mike put it to me this way. Asked John if he was going to flow them and his reaction was like "do you really wanna" . Paraphrasing sure, but he really does not care about cfm numbers as far as making power. Says cross section matters far more. 414 is the best E head numbers I have ever heard of, 459 High Port(first try, Mikes HPs would have been higher) and 500+ Tigers. All by the same guy. Not a coincidence. Personally, I think KRE, All Pontiac even BOP, someone who casts heads and intakes should have him do a set of heads and intake, put the valves, runners, plugs, chamber where he wants. Instead of having to change it all, do it right as cast. Let their egos go. Money wise he would be better of doing a LS or BBC than Pontiac. I am just glad he seems to like working on them.
These Super Weges are another great piece from KRE. Now have a Tiger rival. Both 400cfm as cast.

[Tom Vaught]

Good Post Dragncar.
Mike just wanted to run in the 7s with his steel firebird. HE DID THAT.
He wanted to get a first class dyno session on his engine, He got that locally.
No long trips and was helped by a very sharp dyno guy. Chris H.

Some have never run 7s in the quarter, (Never was on my bucket list).
Mike wanted to do that and he did it with a lot of hard work and $$$, and help from his friends. On a track, racing with his friends in the last months of his life.

Back to the Super Wedge Head. Looking forward to it easily topping the High Port Numbers and setting a new standard for that type of head design. Carry On.

Tom V.

[Dragncar]

I dont know Tom. KRE says with porting they think the Super Wedge can go 475cfm. Mike just got 459 out of High Ports without relocating the valve. I do not think its unreasonable to think he could not get 15 or so more cfm out of them if he really tried. Moved valve location. Mike did throw the 480 number out to me, kind of chuckling at the end of a conversation. I think Mike liked putting friendly pressure on John for more. And John enjoyed the challenge.
Who is going to pick up the ball from Mike ? He was a head guy/guru/engine builders dream. Wanted more, driven and willing to make it happen. No shortage of them wanting Mike in their camp. Almost went Tigers not too far back.
Still say cfm is not cfm. We all know about the 480cfm Pro Ports that did not run like that on the track. Went different direction. Certain KRE guy got the latest and greatest HPs and no improvement. Got blamed, went different direction.
I think shops are nuts for not doing them right. People like that do not grow on trees.
Cant wait for someone to have Marcella do a set of Super Wedges.

[slowbird]

I'd like to see someone other than BES build a Pontiac for NMCA 10.5 and see if they can compete. Maybe KRE can find a customer to build and an engine with these Super Wedge heads and compete.

[PAUL K]

Let's do it with Slowbird.....I'll tune the suspension.

[Jack Ferris]

I'll bring sandwiches.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Let's do it with Slowbird.....I'll tune the suspension.

Sounds good, you sponsoring me?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Sounds good, you sponsoring me?

Partially.... and Mr. Ferris will feed us.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Still say cfm is not cfm. We all know about the 480cfm Pro Ports that did not run like that on the track. Went different direction. Certain KRE guy got the latest and greatest HPs and no improvement. Got blamed, went different direction..

Agree.
CSA and velocity first.

Chad Speier can also do it well.

[ponjohn]

How much power loss from 16-1 down to 11-1?

[Tom Vaught]

Power loss is assumed to be 3% gain or loss in compression ratio per point of compression ratio. But the gain diminishes as you actually get over about 13 to 1 compression ratio.

But for easy math, 5 compression ratio points times 3% for each point = 15% less power vs a 16-1 engine.

Tom V.

[PontiacMatt72]

930 x .85 = 790.5 hp

So safe to assume the ~5 points of of compression decrease from 16:1 down to 11:1 would lose ya roughly 130-140 hp (Edit) **in this particular instance.

[johnta1]

Hp Change from CR change Calc

[Tom Vaught]

Wallace says about 80 hp vs the simple 3% rule that came from HO Racing years ago.

Using his calculator for whatever it is worth:

Assuming 930 HP at 16 to 1 and then stepping down 1 compression ratio at a time to the lower compression ratio of 11 to 1.

12 hp, 14 hp, 14 hp, 17 hp, 19 hp change.

Wallace's number say a 2.0% change from 11 to 1 to 12 to 1 so he is in disagreement with the old numbers assumed by the AUTO industry. So take the calculator numbers with a grain of salt. Wallace says that you only gain 19 hp with a 930 hp engine going from 11 to 1 to 12 to 1 and only 12 horsepower from 15 to 1 to 16 to 1.
Almost not worth doing it from his calculator.

You get a lot more change from Boost obviously.

Tom V.



Tom V.

[johnta1]

Tom's way is not correct.



The HP difference does not follow a straight line.

[PontiacMatt72]

Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72

930 x .85 = 790.5 hp

So safe to assume the ~5 points of of compression decrease from 16:1 down to 11:1 would lose ya roughly 130-140 hp (Edit) **in this particular instance.

2nd edit:
Apparently (like many other things) it's a matter of opinion. Therefore, Do your own math with whatever formula you think is right.