[Speargun]

Who has first hand knowledge of these systems?
Pros & Cons?
Fitment issues?

It looks like the CVF Wraptor has better belt wrap on the pulleys & costs around $100 less. It also includes a choice between a GM Type II Pump w/mounted or remote reservoir or a Saginaw type pump.

The March system only comes with a GM Type II Pump and "requires" you to obtain a remote reservoir, adding to the system cost.

CVF comes with a Peanut Style (7B10) Compressor where the March has a Sanden 7176 A/C Compressor.

CVF only states "High Flow Aluminum Water Pump" and March says "Edelbrock AL. High Flow Water pump".

CVF works with a mechanical, or electric, fuel pump and March says it requires an electric fuel pump.

Both offer 140 amp alternators and different finishes for the pulleys & brackets.

Overall, the CVF system looks like a better option...
BUT, I installed their V-belt system on a previous engine and spent many, many, many hours trying to get all of the pulleys lined up and don't want to have to deal with that again.

[Chris65LeMans]

I have a CVF system and love it. Tech support was great.

[Schurkey]

What's wrong with the OEM V-belt system?

[Speargun]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

What's wrong with the OEM V-belt system?

Nothing, I suppose, if you already have them.
I don't so I would have to source all of the correct pulleys, brackets, bolts, & belts for the crank, wp, alt, ps, & ac.
With a serpentine system, everything is there, the ribbed belt gives better grip, stays at the correct tension, and ......it's shiny!

And most importantly, I prefer serpentine over v-belts.

[PontiacMatt72]

Guess there wasn’t anyone besides Chris65LeMans with experience with either manufacturer of these serpentine systems?

[AG]

I've used a few CVF pulleys and they are quality pieces.

[67Fbird]

I'm a cheap ars....i made my own using some Ford pulleys (fixed by ME) and a gm tensioner from ...something..don;t remember..
I just can NOT see putting out $1000 on a belt set-up......

I do not understand why both March and CVF require you to MANUALLY adjust/tension the belt???...and still mount the Alternator high (original location) when it could be lowered about 4 inches (gives a little more room for an air inlet feed tube )

The issue I had with V-belts .....FLING!! every time I twisted it up. Never could solve that until I made a serp set-up

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by 67Fbird

I do not understand why both March and CVF require you to MANUALLY adjust/tension the belt???

Because neither company has a decent engineer on staff.

[PontiacMatt72]

Originally Posted by 67Fbird

I do not understand why both March and CVF require you to MANUALLY adjust/tension the belt???

Boys, they don’t require you to manually adjust/tension if you buy a system with a self tensioner... which is offered by both CVF and March for the Pontiac V8.

March: https://marchperformance.com/pontiac...ntine-kit.html

CVF: https://www.cvfracing.com/pontiac/po...ntine-systems/

Based on responses in this thread, Only one here on PY/maxperformance has ponied up for one of these systems, and he seems satisfied. No reason, other than cost, not to give it a shot.

[RocktimusPryme]

I thought the wraptor did have a tensioning pulley and the cheaper beast system didn’t.

FWIW I’m considering a serpentine system myself. I had original pulleys, and brackets. Switched to AC style pulleys and the CVF brackets. I HATE pontiacs early alternator strap system, and it put the alternator too close to the PS pump.

While the AC pulleys cool the car better, I have flung off the alternator belt at the top of the 1/4. At the end of the day I think the serpentine kit probably just won’t have to be as dead nuts perfect to avoid tossing belts.

I will also add that everytime I have dealt with CVF they have been top notch.

[RH68]

Yes the automatic tensioner only comes on the more expensive CVF system. I have the Beast version that does not and just added extra pulleys and bracket for AC too. I am thinking about machining a new AC bracket and adding a spring loaded tensioner to it. It is in the same place where one of the idler pulleys is so I can’t see why it wouldn’t work since the belt path would be the same. I don’t think there would be room to do this if you don’t have AC pulleys too. It is pretty tight with just alternator and PS.

[HWYSTR455]

I have the Billet Specialties setup on one car, and just got the March setup for another.

Hands down, the Billet Specialties is the best, in design, tolerances, and overall quality. Only complaints I have are, it's a little difficult to shine a timing light on the timing marks with the A/C setup, and when you order black, the A/C compressor and type II PS pump are in polished. (believe they now offer both in black)

The March setup pics on the website are old, and the new setup does have the tensioner, extra idler, and type II pump, with better belt wrap. March offers a black compressor, but only offer a black billet cover for the PS pump. (Have not installed yet, but have personally seen another member's car with this setup, in a 2nd gen bird).

Both the Billet Specialties and the March setups are below the height of the valve covers. These two systems to my knowledge are the only that mount low like that, and was what I needed for my build.

The Billet Specialties compressor manifold is a much nicer piece than the March one, and March offers the Billet Specialties remote reservoir.

Billet Specialties uses, and provides, all hardware from ARP, and is a combo of 12-point, cap head, and countersink cap screws. March uses cap screws with 'sleeves' that cover the protruding cap heads.

The Billet Specialties and March both use CS130 alts, Billet Specialties only offers 170a, in a standard polished case, or the billet case (specific to Billet Specialties). March only offers the polished case, can be special ordered black, and is listed as a 140a (others can be special ordered if you call). Both companies use PowerMaster alts based off the polished case, most likely to control alignment.

.

[Chris65LeMans]

I realized that the lack of an auto tensioner on the CVF is no big deal at all. The alternator bracket has a barrel adjuster on it - just put a box wrench on it to twist, and adjustment is done. I haven't had to adjust it since install, but I've got 2,000 miles on it so far.

My setup cost about $500 - and that included a new alternator.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans

I realized that the lack of an auto tensioner on the CVF is no big deal at all. The alternator bracket has a barrel adjuster on it - just put a box wrench on it to twist, and adjustment is done. I haven't had to adjust it since install, but I've got 2,000 miles on it so far.

My setup cost about $500 - and that included a new alternator.

Thats kinda what I was thinking too. I think we all get wrapped up because the OEMs use an auto tension pulley. Reality is you set it and forget it. Would I design it with a spring loaded pulley? Sure. Would I invest a bunch of time to install or spend an extra $500 to get a more expensive system with said pulley? Probably not.

I will add a caution about those heim joint adjusters. There is apparently such a thing as too tight. I ruined an alternator on my CVF V belt system. They are really easy to overtighten.

[RH68]

I’ll second that caution. When I first got my system I could not get the belt to stop squealing. The only advice from CVF was to make sure the pulleys were aligned and tighten the belt more. I finally tightened it so much that I destroyed my power steering pump. Once I added the A/C parts and installed a new longer belt I had no squeal and needed much less tension. All I can figure is that the first belt was bad and caused the squeal.

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Thats kinda what I was thinking too. I think we all get wrapped up because the OEMs use an auto tension pulley. Reality is you set it and forget it. Would I design it with a spring loaded pulley? Sure. Would I invest a bunch of time to install or spend an extra $500 to get a more expensive system with said pulley? Probably not.

I will add a caution about those heim joint adjusters. There is apparently such a thing as too tight. I ruined an alternator on my CVF V belt system. They are really easy to overtighten.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by RH68

I’ll second that caution. When I first got my system I could not get the belt to stop squealing. The only advice from CVF was to make sure the pulleys were aligned and tighten the belt more. I finally tightened it so much that I destroyed my power steering pump. Once I added the A/C parts and installed a new longer belt I had no squeal and needed much less tension. All I can figure is that the first belt was bad and caused the squeal.

I think there is a lot of confusion with V belts. Some are brands list SAE measurements some are metric, you will order two same length from two different parts stores. One will be a 10mm back one will be 13mm etc etc.

Most of us just look at the correct length and forget about it, but I think many belt squeal problems are likely due to all belts not being made equally.

In my case I have original pulleys but CVF brackets. I probably should have gotten all new pulleys so everything was uniform.

[HWYSTR455]

Been saying it for years, anything over 140a alt, you can't tighten a V-belt setup enough to keep if from slipping, or cooking the bearings in the alt or PS pump. THAT it the benefit to a serpentine systems, more area for the belt to grip.

If you notice, some alts over a certain amp only come with a ribbed pulley.

I was unaware of any V-belt setup that uses a tensioner?


.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I was unaware of any V-belt setup that uses a tensioner?

I don't think Pontiacs do, but Olds blocks went to a tensioner when they used the CS130 alternator in the later 1980s. Plenty of people over-tensioned it and caused the alternator to fail, the bearings cook quickly if you tension it too much!

[64speed]

But the complete CVF kit. That way all your accessories have a lifetime warranty

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

I don't think Pontiacs do, but Olds blocks went to a tensioner when they used the CS130 alternator in the later 1980s. Plenty of people over-tensioned it and caused the alternator to fail, the bearings cook quickly if you tension it too much!

Got a pic? I'm pretty sure only serpentine setups have tensioners. And Olds went to serpentine setups in the 80s, like most makers did. It was due to requiring higher output alts for electronics. That was my understanding.



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