[64speed]

I just wondered the thoughts everyone had on running this as a regular oil after the break in period. The reason I ask is because the back of the bottle eludes to the fact that its additive package is perfect for HFT beyond just break in. It is available in a couple of weights and as I said its worded like its a good oil for flat tappet cams. I am willing to pay for it if it will give me the protection I need. It clearly states also that no other additives are needed.

[racegto65]

i use their break in oil for initial startup on all the builds in my shop
and then recommend LUCAS HOT ROD & CLASSIC CAR MOTOR OIL
I also use it in my own classics

[ZeGermanHam]

+1 to above. Rather than attempting to read between the lines and infer what could be possible with the break-in oil beyond the break-in period, why not just use the Lucas oil that is intended to be used after break-in? There's no need to get creative here. Just use their regular hot rod/classic car oil. It has ZDDP and is intended for HFT.

[chuckies76ta]

X3 on above post. Here's a good read. https://vpracingfuels.com/tech-talk-...hy-it-matters/

Simply put: How is break-in oil different from regular oil? Break-in oil is different from regular motor oil because, by design, it is supposed to allow the rings to wear down the peaks on the cylinder wall to form a good seal. Regular motor oil, in contrast, is designed to prevent wear.

[The Champ]

Thing about it...

If Lucas thought that their break in oil was the right thing for regular use for FT cams, they wouldn't produce their Hot Rod and Classic Oil.

[64speed]

I am just trying to avoid another failure and the back of the bottle reads like its the ULTIMATE protection for HFT.

[Sirrotica]

Anytime I have oil questions, I call the tech lines to see what the manufacturer recommends, after all it is their product, and they are aware of how it was formulated, and for what applications what product will work the best.

I don't believe you're going to get any real world information on this forum about oil formulations, and applications. Oil companies are pretty secretive about all the nuances in their formulations. They will give general information about formulations, but stop short of giving detailed information about what, and how much is in their oil.

[Formulajones]

Send a sample into Blackstone if you really want to know.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I am just trying to avoid another failure and the back of the bottle reads like its the ULTIMATE protection for HFT.

Was the recent failure oil related?

If not, you're over thinking this.

Going with a quality brand oil, that has sufficient ZDDP, will work fine.

After break in, I've run Mobil 1 oils with the higher ZDDP levels.

Link to all the Mobil 1 oils with their zinc and phosphorous levels:

file:///C:/Users/Mike/Downloads/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide%20(2).pdf

15W50 is specifically recommended for FT cams in performance cars by Mobil. That's what I run in the GTO. In my wife's Camaro, I run Mobil 1 FS 0W40.

I prefer to use Mobil 1 because I can get it almost anywhere over the counter.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Was the recent failure oil related?

If not, you're over thinking this.

Going with a quality brand oil, that has sufficient ZDDP, will work fine.

After break in, I've run Mobil 1 oils with the higher ZDDP levels.

Link to all the Mobil 1 oils with their zinc and phosphorous levels:

file:///C:/Users/Mike/Downloads/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide%20(2).pdf

15W50 is specifically recommended for FT cams in performance cars by Mobil. That's what I run in the GTO. In my wife's Camaro, I run Mobil 1 FS 0W40.

I prefer to use Mobil 1 because I can get it almost anywhere over the counter.

No it was a roller cam and the failure was my fault from a missed shift and revving to the moon. This is a flat tappet and I just want it to live a long healthy life.

[JSchmitz]

I learned in, A&P school, to use use straight 30w non-detergent oil for break-in (IIRC). The key is non-detergent. This allows the assembly lube to remain on the parts longer. Also allows rings to seat properly etc.

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I am just trying to avoid another failure and the back of the bottle reads like its the ULTIMATE protection for HFT.

I'd assume that it means "ultimate" protection for HFT cams during break-in. In other words, it will allow the cam & lifters to mate correctly and also keep you from wiping them out during break-in, but that doesn't mean it's suitable for regular use beyond break-in. That's what the regular Lucas oil is for.

[JB Eng Wis]

Lucas Break - In (30W tested new)oil seems to have the most Phosphorus @ 3641 ppm and Zinc @ 4726 ppm, that I have tested.... works very well IMO...
But does seem to break after dyno use...I suggest dumping after break in.
There are lots of good Conventional and Synthetic oils out there with higher Phos & Zinc levels if thats what your looking for. Lucas Hotrod and Classic (Conv)
oil is listed on thier web site as having 1900 ppm Phosphorus & 2100 pm Zinc.
Amsoil Z-Rod (20w50 Synthetic) (Tested new)at 1466 ppm Phosphorus, 1749 ppm Zinc 86 ppn Molybdenum and 302 ppm Boron. Hope this is helpful.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by 64speed

... and as I said its worded like ...

[lust4speed]

I was told by my machine shop that short course and circle track racers ran the Lucas break-in oil for the life of the engine because the racers found less wear on teardowns.

Could the difference in break-in oil and the reduced ZDDP in their hot rod oil be the result of avoiding repercussions from the EPA for oils used on the street? Easy out for Lucas to only recommend it for break-in and be quiet on street driven vehicles because the word gets out anyway? Everything they mention on the above label seems what we really all want from an engine oil on every engine.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

I was told by my machine shop that short course and circle track racers ran the Lucas break-in oil for the life of the engine because the racers found less wear on teardowns.

Could the difference in break-in oil and the reduced ZDDP in their hot rod oil be the result of avoiding repercussions from the EPA for oils used on the street? Easy out for Lucas to only recommend it for break-in and be quiet on street driven vehicles because the word gets out anyway? Everything they mention on the above label seems what we really all want from an engine oil on every engine.

THIS! The label leads you to believe there is nothing wrong with continuing use beyond break in.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

I was told by my machine shop that short course and circle track racers ran the Lucas break-in oil for the life of the engine because the racers found less wear on teardowns.

Could the difference in break-in oil and the reduced ZDDP in their hot rod oil be the result of avoiding repercussions from the EPA for oils used on the street? Easy out for Lucas to only recommend it for break-in and be quiet on street driven vehicles because the word gets out anyway? Everything they mention on the above label seems what we really all want from an engine oil on every engine.

The thing about circle track racers, or any car dedicated for racing, is they are changing oil fairly frequently. So these types of oils CAN work. The issue with break in oils is they don't have a detergents package making them a horrible choice for long use and long change intervals in a street car.

There is some truth to the way this stuff is marketed to skate around regulations using phrases like, for off road use only. I've found in the past some of your heavier weight oils had more additives like zddp than the thinner oils of the same brand. Valvoline used to do that as well as mobile. I guess the thought was people with street cars weren't going to use the thicker oils anyway.
Don't know if that's the case anymore as I haven't tested those oils in years.
I'd still be careful of using break in oils for anything other than intended. Without the additive package of detergents it's not going to keep things clean over a long period of use.

Also take note of what JB stated above. Actual sample data from amsoil vs what an oil label says are 2 completely different things.
I'd be more curious of a sample tested from Lucas hot rod oil. My bet is it would come back a little lighter than what is advertised on the label.

[Steve C.]

Enough tech material on the subject to make your head spin.

Choose your 'flavor'.....

From JE Pistons
"Break-in oil should also only be used for initial engine run-in and then changed along with the filter and replaced with the engine oil you intend to run. On a street engine, this would mean less than 100 miles. Changing the break-in oil removes the impurities that will be present in the oil from the break-in period."

( note within the article they show pictures of break-in oil from Driven,
Amsoil and Lucas. And I suspect their suggestion refers to other brands as well )

From Royal Purple
"We recommend using our Engine Break-In Oil for a minimum of 500-1,000 miles in street driven gasoline engines to assure that the complete ring break-in has been completed before switching to one of our full synthetic engine oils. If need be, you can use it for up to 2500 miles."

From VP Racing Lubricants
"Depending on the application, break-in oil is used for 500 – 1,000 miles, or 10-12 full heat cycles, where you allow the engine to reach full operating temperature and cool down completely between cycles."

"Use engine break-in oil only long enough to seat the engine. The abrasive wear caused by engine break-in can increase exponentially. Therefore, it’s important to change the oil as soon as proper break-in has occurred. This can vary greatly and is often determined by ring tension and valvetrain type."


From AMSOIL
"In general, run the engine under light-to-moderate loads for about 500 miles. Again, that duration is a rule of thumb, but break in shouldn’t exceed 1,000 miles."

From Driven BR Break-In Oil
"Good for full power pulls on the dyno, one night of racing or up to 400 miles on the street."


.

[Formulajones]

Thanks Steve,

They all seem to be pretty consistent on the fact that they don't want that oil in the engine for very long, which makes sense given their lack of a detergent additive package generally not found in a break in oil.

I've personally never ran a break in oil in an engine beyond a dyno session, or possibly 100 miles of street driving.

[MIAGIMAN]

FWIW I use Wolfshead 30 non detergent to breakin a high performance old school motorcycle engines (and pontiac) engines, then like my cars switched to Lucas 20-50 hot rod oil. I've been using that oil for years with very good results