[Teej]

I recently had a rear axle bearing go bad on my '66 Bonneville. It was bad enough I opted to source a new axle. When I got it, it still had a bearing on there, but not knowing anything about it, I figured I'd just replace it while I had it out of the car. I don't have a press so I went to a local engine service shop. Old guy, probably been doing stuff for 25 years based on the look of the shop.

He said his press wasn't wide enough to press off the bearings so he was going to torch them off. I hesitated, thinking I'd read posts that there were better ways to do that, but didn't have any options lined up and I figured he has way more experience in this than I do.

I'm sure you see where this going, but yeah, he torched a bit of the axle shaft. He pulled out the air gun and polished it a bit, and said that "It will be fine."

Me? I didn't think it looked "fine", but honestly I don't know. I wouldn't buy an axle that looks like this, but is it actually safe to run? Not a drag car or anything extreme, just a grocery getter.

The damage was done and there wasn't any "fixing" it, so he pressed the bearing on anyway. Now i'm trying to decide if I'll actually install this one. I'd love to hear some opinions from people with experience. And if the opinion is that I'm worried over nothing, that's fine also. I just don't know.

Thanks

[srmmmm]

I would be concerned with the the amount of heat that went into the axle and would choose to not use it on my vehicle.

[b-man]

What’s done is done.

Buy another axle and move on.

It’s not worth chancing a failure that will at least destroy your quarter panel and possibly cause you to lose your life at worst.

[JLMounce]

You're worried about it enough to take pictures and ask about it here. The reason the question is being asked is because of the sunk cost you've already incurred against the cost of the axle.

In my opinion, axles are quasi wear items. For peace of mine, I would be replacing both axles and probably doing a major service on the rear-end at the same time.

However I'm not you and I don't know what your budget looks like. If this car really is nothing but a slow weekend cruise, it's probably not a huge issue. I think what you have to do is weigh your anxiety about the damage against the financial hit you'll take buy replacing the axle, then decide on whichever is easier for you to stomach.

[mzbk2l]

I wouldn't run it.

[694.1]

Looks you should have caught him earlier in the day before he started drinking.

[b-man]

This is probably one of those times where you just bite the bullet and buy a pair of new Moser or whatever aftermarket axles complete with bearings since it looks like you don’t have any local shops capable of handling the work.

If one axle bearing has gone bad the other one isn’t far behind it.

Or perhaps contact ol’ Pinion head (Roger) and see if he can supply a good used axle with a new bearing pressed on it, maybe a pair while you’re at it. I know he’s mostly a ‘70-‘72 A-body guy but it can’t hurt to ask.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Teej

... I'd love to hear some opinions from people with experience...

I'm sorry you tried to fix one issue and ended up creating uncertainty. It happens.

JLMounce and others are advising you to replace for peace of mind but he's empathetic to your dilemma. It's always easy to spend OPM (other people's money) so I also get why you are asking.

Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely you will find an answer to the "will it break?" question.

As a retired reliability engineer, quantifying the increased risk for failure (will it break?) isn't easy. It would take a lot of engineering work or getting lucky and finding an engineering expert that is familiar with that exact design. Unlikely to happen on this forum IMO..

b-man says focus on the consequences. This is good advice when you can't know the probability of failure and are assessing risk.

If a fracture at that location would cause you to lose a wheel or lose control, that would be enough for me to conclude the risk wasn't worth it, but that's your call. Unfortunately, I do NOT have the experience to tell you.

Perhaps someone on the forum had an axle break and could tell you what happened? Did the wheel fall off or did the bearing retainer hold it until they got off the road safely? Even if theirs didn't fall off, will you have the same experience?

Mike

[Stuart]

I was riding in a '66 Bonneville one time when a rear wheel bearing gave out. The axle pulled out of the rear end housing, but fortunately the fender well kept it from totally off the car (the wheel rubbing against the fender well made a heck of a racket.)

Yeah, I'd find another axle.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Shiny

If a fracture at that location would cause you to lose a wheel or lose control, that would be enough for me to conclude the risk wasn't worth it, but that's your call. Unfortunately, I do NOT have the experience to tell you.

Perhaps someone on the forum had an axle break and could tell you what happened? Did the wheel fall off or did the bearing retainer hold it until they got off the road safely? Even if theirs didn't fall off, will you have the same experience?

Mike

Originally Posted by Stuart

I was riding in a '66 Bonneville one time when a rear wheel bearing gave out. The axle pulled out of the rear end housing, but fortunately the fender well kept it from totally off the car (the wheel rubbing against the fender well made a heck of a racket.)

Yeah, I'd find another axle.

Somewhat similar, the day I brought my bird home I had a front wheel bearing failure. The outer bearing on the passenger front wheel seized up and snapped the spindle clean in two. The only thing that kept the wheel in place was the fact that it was a drum brake car at the time. The shoes kept the wheel in place long enough to bring the car to a stop.

Several years back an old buddy of mine lost an axle in his Camaro. Lots of things got trashed so it was hard to pin down a cause, but believe that it broke a c clip. Either way, the wheel exited the housing in much the same way as a failure at the axle housing bearing would. It banged up the car quite badly. Put major dents in the quarter panel, destroyed the drum components, bent the axle tube and broke the leaf spring pack on the same side.

The cost to fix and replace this stuff today is probably 3-5K and that probably assumes no paint work.

[gtospieg]

I had a similar situation at a machine shop (but he cut the bearing off and cut into the axle).... When I saw it I told him to buy me a new axle and a new bearing...he did. Never went there again.

[mzbk2l]

As a side note, since this thread is related: Why not use a torch to make the bearing fall off without a press or cutting? Front wheel drive hub in the example video below, but I would think a reasonably inventive person could rig up an axle to do the same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hys-0NWDL1w

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

As a side note, since this thread is related: Why not use a torch to make the bearing fall off without a press or cutting? Front wheel drive hub in the example video below, but I would think a reasonably inventive person could rig up an axle to do the same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hys-0NWDL1w

Why, because cutting torches even in very experienced hands are not that controllable.
I'm 62, & learned to cut steel & acetylene stick weld @ 11 y/o, still have an acetylene setup. Around the same time I bought my first Dremel tool. 8 or 9 Dremel type tools later, still using them nearly every week.

Back to OP & the old timer "needing a wider (bigger) press". With bolt-in axles you don't try to press a bearing off with the thick steel lock collar intact. Trying to do so creates too much load on the press & press plate. The BEST way is to cut a slot in the thick steel collar with a Dremel cutoff wheel. That diagonal slot doesn't need to to be all the way through. Once the slot is maybe halfway into the collar, grab a decently sharp chisel, place it in the slot, & pop it with a hammer. DING! the steel collar will crack below the slot & the bearing can be easily pressed off.

[Sirrotica]

There is a way to get the collar off, and not harm the axle with a torch, same as using a dremel tool to cut it. You cut through it part way, and split it, obviously this wasn't done like this.

I assume he put a knick in it with the torch, and it happens when the person isn't as good using a torch as they think they are. I've seen it happen before, the nick gets polished, and a new bearing gets installed. Unless the man was very inexperienced with the torch, little heat went into the roughly 1 inch bar of tempered steel. The other thing is the inner bearing race goes over the nick, forming an outer sleeve that adds more support to the affected area.

Without seeing the damage in a picture, no one can really advise if the defect really harmed the new axle. I can assure you I've seen this scenario before, the cars/machines were reassembled and put back into use. The heat should have been confined mostly to the collar, and bearing. Along with working decades as an auto tech, I've also worked on large machines in a maintenance shop. This happened in both areas of my employment, and I've never seen the shaft break after torching off a bearing, and unfortuneatly nicking the shaft with the slag from the torch.

I can only speak from my own experiences, but nothing bad happened from the examples I've seen in real time. Unless the person put a ton more heat into the axle than would be necessary, the axle tempering wasn't likely affected to a dangerous point. In a grocery getter scenario, the over engineering of this part likely has the necessary strength to do the job. I probaly wouldn't bolt slicks on the car, but Dairy Queen driving is probably not going to break it. Pictures would be helpful in a real opinon though.

[JSchmitz]

Will the gouge hurt anything? Highly unlikely. But my piece of mind is worth way more than that axle. Replace it and sleep well...

[b-man]

Well you have a rare 421 Tri-Power 4-speed 9-passenger station wagon.

There’s no way I would risk driving it with that very sketchy looking axle if it were mine.

You thought it was questionable enough to come here and ask. In the back of your mind that axle will always be haunting you, you’ll never be able to drive it without thinking about that axle.

You already know what to do.

['ol Pinion head]

Have examined well over a dozen GM & Ford bolt-in axles that some old school wrench got carried away with a cutting torch & nicked the axle. On a big thick axle like a '65-70 8 7/8 P series in a putt-A-round ride that "mechanic" inflicted damage may not be a big deal. That noted there are folks that have a ton of torque under theirs hood & drive like idiots. That area is a trouble spot on bolt-in sealed axle bearing rears.

On the most common '64-69 bolt in A-body axles the RW507CR sealed axle bearings are notorious for seizing, chewing up an axle, & often the then loose axle departing the rear. Usually low speed cornering, the axle will walk put. Between parts cars & extensive boneyarding I used to pull every pair of "GM A-body" sealed bearing axles I could find that were cheap. By the time I was winding down pulling them in the cheap yards where fairly recent driver cars ended up, the claim rate of good useable axles was only around 50%. In the small country yards, where the cars had been sitting for decades, the claim ratio was better.

From '65-70 Pontiac B series cars I've only ran across a few that their 508BR sealed axle bearings had seized, & the core axle was beginning to become chewed up. That noted, I'm currently out of nice used axles of that style & all have sold to owners that had bad axle bearing issues. A few of the monster yards I've been in over the last few years don't want to sell a single core axle, instead they're after selling a questionable condition used rear. No thanks! Do know of a few big yards that can pull an axle & ship.

Like any sealed bearing axle, before install or ship out, I always carefully examine the axle, remove the lock collar, press off the bearing. Then usuallly, a good 90 percent of the time, replace the wheel studs with new ones. For some axles, the correct length is getting hard to find! Last, I replace the axle retaining plate, & carefully press the new quality sealed axle bearing on. Some sealed axle bearings are EXTREMLY hard to find. Buick was the worst in this regard, they used several different sealed axle bearings there for a few years. Of course many BUICK 8.2 10 bolts & '68-70 BUICK 8.25 10 bolts have ended up under other division A-body's & even '69-72 GP's. When that's the case & an axle is bad, ESP if the car is a performance driver, it's time to start weighing the options of replacing the entire rear.

[Sirrotica]

I missed the picture that you posted, I just skimmed over the original post, and saw that you did post a picture of it.

That being said, that guy sure as hell doesn't know how to use a cutting torch to remove a bearing and collar. That is a bad example of a torch being used to remove bearings, and collars. When I use a torch to cut bearings, I go across the race, so your not blowing slag onto that stepped portion of the shaft, removing the likelyhood of gouging it with the torch.

He surely cut into the axle more than I anticipated, likely it's not going to weaken it severely because the majority of the metal removed is on the stepped portion, and as I said the bearing inner race goes over the critical part, giving it more support.

Probably is safe to use, but you have to live with knowledge of it being gouged. Your car, and your decision......

Another bad thing is that there aren't tons of spare parts on those rear axles just lying around for B body wagons, might be a stretch to find a good used one. That being said, a 50-60 year old used axle might come with it's own set of problems. There aren't many NOS parts floating around for your application. It sucks that this happened, and your left with the decision of use it as is, or replace it.

[HWYSTR455]

Dutchman has direct replacement axles, Moser does 'chebby' axles. They have no idea what a bolt in axle is for a BOP rear.

Not knocking Moser per se, I use Moser for a lot of stuff, just not OE BOP.

https://dutchmanaxles.com/

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