#1401  
Old 09-27-2020, 03:48 PM
avman avman is offline
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That model 292 is 4" deep, and would not fit in the 3" max space I have available for my 70 Roadrunner.
Right now, I'm going to install the 17" flex fan, the factory radiator, and go drive the car. The GTO Cold Case radiator dimensions are in the attached pic.
The first dual 12" Cold Case fan setup I can return for full credit. I'm stuck with the 16" electric fan because the vendor I bought $6K worth of stuff from says because it was trimmed (to fit tightly without gaps) and the wires cut to solder into my power and ground wires, I can't return it and he thinks it could be "a lean condition at highway speed or timing too far retarded" Never mind that the mechanical clutch fan did not cause the engine to run hot.
I'm going to write him one more email after I contact the manufacturer. If they won't refund my money, I am going to let him know I bought the fan he recommended and IT FAILED to work as promised, and my proof is the mechanical fan doesn't make the car overheat, therefore HE IS RESPONSIBLE for selling me a product unfit for the purpose indicated. If he still refuses to give me a refund, I will explore other options, and never buy anything from him again.
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  #1402  
Old 09-27-2020, 06:21 PM
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HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
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Keep in mind, when a dual fan setup is giving dimensions, the highest point is the fan motors. The highest point on your engine is most likely the water pump snout. That would fit between the fan motors.

Example: (Pic Attached)

The snout of the WP with the pulley on it is 1.1" more than the rated 'overall depth' of the fan assembly. You also have to take into account the core is not the same depth as the tanks, you get a little there too.

But, to say it out loud, you won't know until you try.

You can always look at moving the rad forward some too.

.
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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
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1971 Trans Am 461, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
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  #1403  
Old 09-27-2020, 06:31 PM
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HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
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Once you mod a part, you own it. I don't know of any supplier that will accept a return on a modified part.

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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 461, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
1972 442 W-30 Tribute (495 stroker aluminum heads upgrade in progress)
442 Build Thread:
http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...e-project.html
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #1404  
Old 09-28-2020, 10:07 PM
avman avman is offline
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TEST DRIVE RESULTS ARE IN!
With the factory non-AC radiator (because my aluminum Cold Case radiator is wrecked from the fan clutch eating into it) and a 17" FLEX FAN the guy who did the unfinished job on the GTO had and gave me, I was able to use the CVF Wraptor fan spacer and a 2" aluminum spacer I had cut down about 4/5th of an inch to get the FLEX FAN to clear the pulleys, and I have about 1" clearance between the radiator and the farthest forward part of the fan.
Temps between 183-187 no AC at 55. AC on went to about 192-197. At 3,500 RPMs at 72 MPH on the Interstate, the part where it used to go to 220-225, the highest temp with the AC ON was about 205!! Mostly 203.
Seven miles like that and exit, 55 on the road home AC ON, and around 193-197.
Sat in the driveway w/AC ON and it got to about 203.
So....
I'm good to go for the week of Cruisin the Coast, and then I'm going to have to take the Wraptor down to the point where I can get to the water pump and divider plate to check the gap which I still suspect is too wide, but I HAVE TO know. If it is bigger than 1/10th inch I'll massage the plate to get the tight gap. Then see how that affects the temperature. If it drops 10 degrees from 205 to 195 I may go ahead and try the 16" electric fan again. If that doesn't work, I'll sell it and see if I can make a short shroud for the FLEX FAN. I will check the clearance from the flex fan to the Cold Case radiator and if I have at least 1" I'll either get it fixed or sell it and buy a new one.
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  #1405  
Old 09-29-2020, 04:25 PM
avman avman is offline
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IMPORTANT TECH INFO from Dakota Digital. I have the 17" two speed fan in my 440 6bbl 70 Roadrunner from the same manufacturer as the 16" two speed fan in the GTO, that fan failing to keep the 421 Tripower from overheating on the Interstate.
So my tech support epiphany doesn't get unread, I learned in setting up the Dakota Digital PAC-2800BT electronic fan control module today in my Roadrunner that any TWO speed fan that requires BOTH 12 volt power wires to be energized in order for high speed function to work, the PAC-2800BT "FAN MODE" options (Single/Two/Dual) MUST be set to "TWO" in order for the high speed function to engage. This may not be a surprise or help to anyone, but it was for me.
The 16" fan in the GTO likely never ran in high speed mode.
I realize that many discount any "fan" contribution or detriment to temperature control once the vehicle speed goes beyond 40 or 45 or more miles per hour, BUT the overheating problem I've been experiencing has been primarily at highway speed, AND I have been able to GREATLY REDUCE the temperature reached with each of two mechanical fans I have tried, the factory clutch fan, and the 17" FLEX FAN that is currently on the 421.
After struggling with coolant temperatures climbing over 225 degrees or more, primarily at speeds over 50 MPH, and trying 2 different fan and shroud assemblies, one from Cold Case (the radiator manufacturer) that's a dual 12" fan setup, and when that failed to cool acceptably, a highly rated and recommended 16" two speed fan and shroud. The only viable solution I have found so far is using a mechanical fan exclusively. The flex fan kept the "around town" temps in the 180s to 190s and the highest Interstate temp, AC ON, was 205, but mostly 198-203, and back in the 180s-190s after exiting the highway. Anyway, day after tomorrow is when I hope to spring the Roadrunner from "shop jail" and I'll be able to find out if the 17" 2 speed fan, that I know is set up correctly (because I DID IT) keeps my warmed over 440 6bbl cool, or if I have overheating issues like in the GTO. I suspect that it will work fine, and if so, that will press me even more to look at the gap as the problem with the GTO.
If I try the 16" electric fan again, after maybe finding the gap in the water pump to be too large, closing it down to 1/10th" and seeing a 8-10 degree drop in temperature, I will know how to set it up to work properly.

  #1406  
Old 10-03-2020, 02:00 PM
avman avman is offline
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I have another update on the fan saga. I have the 17" version of the same fan in my Roadrunner, 440 6bbl, modded about the same level as the 421, less the aftermarket rods, and it has flat tappet hydraulic lifters, but a 292/.509 cam, headers, etc. Vintage Air AC system and Wraptor.
I had NO overheating problem with the Roadrunner, but there are a couple of differences. No goofy Pontiac design water pump divider plate to contend with. The Cold Case radiator is larger. It was programmed by me to run at high speed, where I set it, but I don't think the GTO fan was. I was able to use the "Turn Fan OFF At XX MPH" feature on the Dakota Digital PAC-2800BT electronic fan control module and the temperature on the highway at 70 MPH didn't change with the fan off. Also, my Passon a855 5 speed and 4.10 gears turn the 440 at 2,750 RPM, not 3,500 like the GTO. I already have a TKO600 5 speed for the GTO, but it's not installed yet.
So, AGAIN, I believe the culprit is the divider plate gap being too big, and as long as the flex fan gets the 421GOAT through Cruisin the Coast without overheating, that will suffice. After the week of Cruisin the Coast, I'll take out the fan and radiator, and a good bit of the Wraptor, so I can get the front half of the water pump off and the divider plate, check the gap, and I expect to have to do some massaging to close that gap.
Then I'll try the same setup, and if I find much cooler temps, I'll go back and try the electric fan and shroud assembly again.

  #1407  
Old 07-21-2021, 02:21 PM
Hotrodjohn71 Hotrodjohn71 is online now
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Default Pump casting #

I was almost able to read through this amazing thread (71 pages)
I have an 8 bolt housing with the cast inner plate and stainless steel divider plate on my 1965 326.
What is a part # I can use to search for to get a pump with the correct tall vanes for this setup. I'm thinking that the correct impeller will have satisfactory clearance.
I realize it is no longer available.
I cannot hammer my inner plate because it is cast.
Thank you
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  #1408  
Old 07-21-2021, 04:57 PM
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Old Goat 67 Old Goat 67 is offline
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Here are pictures of my spare NOS 67 pump sitting on the shelf. WAITING.
Pictures made with ordinal 67 divider plat that has never been hammered on!







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  #1409  
Old 07-21-2021, 06:19 PM
Hotrodjohn71 Hotrodjohn71 is online now
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Thank you OldGoat67,
Is that the cast inner plate 9773375?
Thank you

  #1410  
Old 07-22-2021, 07:27 AM
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Old Goat 67 Old Goat 67 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrodjohn71 View Post
Thank you OldGoat67,
Is that the cast inner plate 9773375?
Thank you
Can't tell you that for sure. It is the plate that was in there when I bought the car brand new.

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  #1411  
Old 07-24-2021, 10:28 PM
Hotrodjohn71 Hotrodjohn71 is online now
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Here's a question about the divider plate. I realise the inner plate must be as close to the impeller as humanly possible without touching and I will get to that but first, I'm wondering about the divider plate.

I think I read somewhere in this vast posting that someone said that as important as the impeller clearance is, the 'centering' of the divider plate to the center line of the impeller is also important so that half of the water goes into one side of the engine and half to the other which would be accomplished by centering of the divider plate to the impeller.

I just received new stainless plates today and when I set them on my new flowkooler pump, I noticed that the divider plate sits so high (or that the impeller sits so low) that about 90% of the flow would be going to one side bank and about 10% to the other.

So, is it recommended to bend the divider plate to center it to the impeller along with setting the clearance on the impeller to inner plate?
Thank you
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  #1412  
Old 07-25-2021, 02:15 PM
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george kujanski george kujanski is offline
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I'd say the divider should be in the center of the vane height to properly divide the flow between banks....Flow-Koolers weren't around back in the day. I like the tall height of the vanes.

IMHO

george

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