[gtobird]

My wagon has parchment color 68 GTO bucket seats in it. Since they were recovered about 17 years ago, the drivers side bucket seat cover has become cracked and the seat now sits a bit uneven. I'm assuming it's from worn springs / and or a warped frame. Meanwhile, the top part of the rear seat cover has a bunch of nicks in it that make it a candidate for recovering as well.

My front bucket seats do not have head rests and I absolutely want them, so I'm pondering my options. First off, my car is a clone wagon, so there is nothing purist about it. I like the look of 69 seats much better than 68, so I'm thinking the thing for me to do may be to just buy a pair of the brand new complete 69 bucket seats with the headrests from PUI. My concern is that I've heard the Legendary covers are much better made and I haven't seen complete seats being sold from Legendary. I suppose I could buy a used set of 69 core seats or buy all new 69 frames, cushions and covers and then assemble them myself. I've recovered Firebird seats, so not out of the question.

Then again, my understanding is that the 68 and 69 seat frames are the same with the exception of the latching mechanism and how the headrests insert. Only one of my seats is bad mechanically, so could I convert the good 68 seat to being a 69 seat?

Of course, last but not least, I could just repair my 68 seats, recover them with Legendary 68 seat covers and add a set of 68 headrests (if they can be found). Wow, lot's of options here, but I'm stumped as to what should be done. I appreciate your opinions.

Old Joe

[HoovDaddy]

My opinion. I've installed many PUI covers over the years. In the 90s I have to agree they had issues mainly during installation depending on the car but they held up well. Wasn't a lot of choices then. In the past 10 years I haven't see any problem with them from an installation or durability standpoint.

In December I ordered black covers for our Bird. I wanted Legendary, but only the fronts were available, I had to get PUI for the rear. Both brands look and feel identical. Seams are sewn the same. I'll be installing them in the next couple weeks.

I'm converting to black because my Legendary Parchment is too yellow and doesn't match the side panels. The Parchment repops are the wrong color in my opinion, too yellow and my trims are only 7 years old. The '69 Parchment interior I had in the '70s was a lot whiter.

If your seats are comfortable, I would add the headrest guides, repair the frames and recover them. I would purchase repop frames as a last resort based on typical repop part quality. Plus there is the parts availability matter these days.

[Carousel72TRed]

Originally Posted by gtobird

My wagon has parchment color 68 GTO bucket seats in it. Since they were recovered about 17 years ago, the drivers side bucket seat cover has become cracked and the seat now sits a bit uneven. I'm assuming it's from worn springs / and or a warped frame. Meanwhile, the top part of the rear seat cover has a bunch of nicks in it that make it a candidate for recovering as well.

My front bucket seats do not have head rests and I absolutely want them, so I'm pondering my options. First off, my car is a clone wagon, so there is nothing purist about it. I like the look of 69 seats much better than 68, so I'm thinking the thing for me to do may be to just buy a pair of the brand new complete 69 bucket seats with the headrests from PUI. My concern is that I've heard the Legendary covers are much better made and I haven't seen complete seats being sold from Legendary. I suppose I could buy a used set of 69 core seats or buy all new 69 frames, cushions and covers and then assemble them myself. I've recovered Firebird seats, so not out of the question.

Then again, my understanding is that the 68 and 69 seat frames are the same with the exception of the latching mechanism and how the headrests insert. Only one of my seats is bad mechanically, so could I convert the good 68 seat to being a 69 seat?

Of course, last but not least, I could just repair my 68 seats, recover them with Legendary 68 seat covers and add a set of 68 headrests (if they can be found). Wow, lot's of options here, but I'm stumped as to what should be done. I appreciate your opinions.

Old Joe

I had my driver’s side bucket seat redone and I bought the PUI seat cover with a new seat cushion from Ames. With the PUI seat cover you can buy just one with Legendary you have to buy both. If you look close compared to the original the lines on the seat cover are not as indented and I do not know how comparable they are vs. the Legendary seat covers. If you request it I can send you a picture of the original vs. PUI .

[gtobird]

Originally Posted by Carousel72TRed

I had my driver’s side bucket seat redone and I bought the PUI seat cover with a new seat cushion from Ames. With the PUI seat cover you can buy just one with Legendary you have to buy both. If you look close compared to the original the lines on the seat cover are not as indented and I do not know how comparable they are vs. the Legendary seat covers. If you request it I can send you a picture of the original vs. PUI .

I would love to see the comparison. Also, the 68 bucket seats in my car right now have parchment PUI seat covers, but they are roughly 17 years old, so I don't know if they are representative of what is available today.

[Carousel72TRed]

Originally Posted by gtobird

I would love to see the comparison. Also, the 68 bucket seats in my car right now have parchment PUI seat covers, but they are roughly 17 years old, so I don't know if they are representative of what is available today.

I’ll send you the pictures within the next couple days. If you need them sooner I can get them to you tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gto4evr]

I recovered a set of 68 seats for a friends gto. I'm not sure if they were "true" 68 seats or modified 69+'s because they had factory 69 headrests and he bought the seats loose at a swap meet. They were a matched set of a power left and a reclining right. The recliner seat cars got 68 style side button releases for 69-72 as well as 68. this is because the recliner left seat can only work with the 68 side button setup so they put a matching side button left seat in the car when the recliner was ordered. Starting in 69 headrests were DOT safety required. I don't believe there was an actual physical difference between a 68 side button seat and a 69-72 side button seat aside from the additional headrest hardware.

They did make an internal change to the seatback framework in 1970 through 72 non recliner seats to accommodate the power seat back release option. That has a different latch mechanism mounting area that's widened so the solenoid body can fit down in there. outwardly they are the same.

Anyways, friends car has 68 interior pattern with the 69 factory headrests in there and it looks and fits fine. We put a Legendary interior in it and the fit was much tighter (and looked better) than the PUI interior I put in my 71 back in 1997. I will say that PUI interior has held up great as the car's been on the road continuously as a summer daily driver and only real flaw is the hook tear on the side panel common on the original interiors is just starting on the driver's seat. I'd say not bad considering it's now 25 years old. the original seats were already torn in 78 after only 7 years.

I can't speak for PUI of the current age. One consideration is the lead time though. No clue on PUI, but Legendary's pretty far out on lead time. I ordered a seat cover for a 68 cutlass supreme from them back in June of 2021 and it just got delivered first week of February this year. they quoted me 30 wk lead time and it was pretty close. (and unfortunately I'm in the midst of some customer service frustration with them because they sewed the seat backs together incorrectly which I'm struggling getting them to deal with!) but I've used them twice prior and had great results and satisfaction with the quality that was much better than that PUI interior, but for a daily driver, PUI was just fine.

[einstein]

A couple basics. As you probably know, 68 seatback release is side-mount while standard 69 seats were moved to center of backrest. The optional reclining passenger seat option as I recall from a 69 my Dad had back in 80-81 used the side-mount feature left over from the 68. They matched the side-mount on the driver seat.

Now on the headrest question, all 69s were equipped with them, while they were "optional" on 69s built in calendar 68. A Federal mandate was in place for cars built starting January 1, 1969. So it would probably be easier for you to get headrests by procuring a pair of 69 seats.

I doubt you often use the latch to tilt the seatback forward as one would to enter the back seat of a 2-door car, but those center mount buttons might be hard to reach past the B-pillar. But if that's important, you'll need a 69 set with passenger recliner.

[gtobird]

Thanks to everyone for the information supplied. I knew about the 68 headrests being optional that year as my 68 Firebird came with them from the factory when most didn't. I'm still a little bit confused on the actual GTO 68 headrests. Are they the same as the 69s or not? If different, what makes them different? Is it just the post mechanism that holds them into the seat, or is the headrest itself different?

With respect to PUI vs Legendary seat covers, it sounds like PUI has gotten better over the years. I'm really wanting to put the best seat covers on that I can buy. I know the lead-time is excessive right now for lots of things so I'm figuring the seat project probably won't happen until next winter, but I would like to figure out which route to go so I can get everything on order. Again, I continue to appreciate the help.

Here is a link to an article on my car in case anyone is interested in seeing what it looks like (article / pictures are prior to me buying it). Other than the one seat being a bit worn, still looks pretty much the same. https://www.motortrend.com/features/...iac-gto-wagon/

Old Joe

[gtobird]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

I recovered a set of 68 seats for a friends gto. I'm not sure if they were "true" 68 seats or modified 69+'s because they had factory 69 headrests and he bought the seats loose at a swap meet. They were a matched set of a power left and a reclining right. The recliner seat cars got 68 style side button releases for 69-72 as well as 68. this is because the recliner left seat can only work with the 68 side button setup so they put a matching side button left seat in the car when the recliner was ordered. Starting in 69 headrests were DOT safety required. I don't believe there was an actual physical difference between a 68 side button seat and a 69-72 side button seat aside from the additional headrest hardware.

They did make an internal change to the seatback framework in 1970 through 72 non recliner seats to accommodate the power seat back release option. That has a different latch mechanism mounting area that's widened so the solenoid body can fit down in there. outwardly they are the same.

Anyways, friends car has 68 interior pattern with the 69 factory headrests in there and it looks and fits fine. We put a Legendary interior in it and the fit was much tighter (and looked better) than the PUI interior I put in my 71 back in 1997. I will say that PUI interior has held up great as the car's been on the road continuously as a summer daily driver and only real flaw is the hook tear on the side panel common on the original interiors is just starting on the driver's seat. I'd say not bad considering it's now 25 years old. the original seats were already torn in 78 after only 7 years.

I can't speak for PUI of the current age. One consideration is the lead time though. No clue on PUI, but Legendary's pretty far out on lead time. I ordered a seat cover for a 68 cutlass supreme from them back in June of 2021 and it just got delivered first week of February this year. they quoted me 30 wk lead time and it was pretty close. (and unfortunately I'm in the midst of some customer service frustration with them because they sewed the seat backs together incorrectly which I'm struggling getting them to deal with!) but I've used them twice prior and had great results and satisfaction with the quality that was much better than that PUI interior, but for a daily driver, PUI was just fine.

I'm hoping you can clarify a couple of things for me. I'm a bit confused by your left side / right side conversation as you refer to the reclining seat being on the right side in one sentence and then being on the left side in another sentence. If I understand correctly, the recliner had to get the 68 side button release even if it was a 69 to 72 seat and the recliner was on the right (passenger side). So then, the left (drivers side seat) also got the side button so it matches. Did I state that correctly? Also, would that have been true even if the drivers side seat would have been either a standard seat, or a power seat all the way from 69 to 72? If that is correct, then I have to believe there would be no issues putting 69 seat covers on a 68 seat frame.

With repect to the seats you covered for you friend, you mention the headrests were 69 vintage. Do you know that for sure they weren't 68 headrests? If so, what is the difference between 68 and 69 headrests? Thanks for sticking with this.

Old Joe

[gtohurstjudge]

There is absolutely no comparison between PUI seat covers and Legendary covers.....
The heat press on Legendary covers go completely flat within six months of installation.......the Legendary
seat covers are made like the original with deep heat presses that don't go flat. PUI has not gotten better
over the years...they have gotten worse..........DO NOT put PUI seat covers in your car!

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The heat press on Legendary covers go completely flat within six months of installation.......the Legendary seat covers are made like the original with deep heat presses that don't go flat.

Did you mean to say that the heat press on PUI covers go flat, rather than Legendary?

If so, that has also been my observation as well. The PUI covers at least used to all suffer from very flat pleating that didn't hold up over time. Not sure if they've gotten better lately, but it's very easy to spot a car with PUI seat covers because the pleating tends to be very flat.

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

There is absolutely no comparison between PUI seat covers and Legendary covers.....
The heat press on Legendary covers go completely flat within six months of installation.......the Legendary
seat covers are made like the original with deep heat presses that don't go flat. PUI has not gotten better
over the years...they have gotten worse..........DO NOT put PUI seat covers in your car!

I know you meant PUI on the first line, but let me say this, I was surprised/disappointed that though Legendary puts that attention to the press on the front pattern on the 68 cutlass covers I recently bought, they didn't on the pattern on the back panel pattern. 2432 is the original, 2433 is the legendary in these pictures

[gto4evr]

just because I've got the pics still on my desktop here for my issue with Legendary, here's the fronts of the covers for comparison them

[gtohurstjudge]

Yes, sorry, that was a typo! Before Legendary started making seat covers for my GTO, I changed
out the seat covers on my GTO six times over a twenty year span because the PUI heat press kept going
flat, not that it looked very good even when they were installed. I bought the Legendary and installed them when they first came out and years later they still look like original seat covers with a deep heat press. Also, on a lot of the PUI door panels on 69 GTO's the chrome mylar falls off of them a few months
after they are installed.

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by gtobird

I'm hoping you can clarify a couple of things for me. I'm a bit confused by your left side / right side conversation as you refer to the reclining seat being on the right side in one sentence and then being on the left side in another sentence. If I understand correctly, the recliner had to get the 68 side button release even if it was a 69 to 72 seat and the recliner was on the right (passenger side). So then, the left (drivers side seat) also got the side button so it matches. Did I state that correctly? Also, would that have been true even if the drivers side seat would have been either a standard seat, or a power seat all the way from 69 to 72? If that is correct, then I have to believe there would be no issues putting 69 seat covers on a 68 seat frame.

With repect to the seats you covered for you friend, you mention the headrests were 69 vintage. Do you know that for sure they weren't 68 headrests? If so, what is the difference between 68 and 69 headrests? Thanks for sticking with this.

Old Joe

sorry, I missed this response when I was posting up the pics yesterday.

yes, you got it. all 69-72 seats were 68 style side release (both sides) when the car came with a right side recliner. and didn't matter if left drivers was power or standard, it got the 68 button to match the right side passenger recliner.

I can't attest to the 68 vs 69 headrests on if there's a difference or not. The seats were completely uncovered when he gave them to me so I don't know what year pattern they were. I know 67 headrests look completely different than 69-72. since they were optional in 67 and 68, I always guessed that the headrest for a 68 was the same as the 67 but I've never seen an original 68 equipped with a headrest to say for certain. There actually is a difference in the headrests between 69 and 70-72 in the notches that are on the metal chrome rods for detent positions on the lock retainer. 69 has notches on the inside and the 70-72 has the notches on the outside. you can't tell without pulling up on the headrest and when they're not matched to the corresponding year retainer, they just won't lock in any positions. I've never really cared about that since I never run the headrests up so I'm more concerned with lack of cracks than the right style rod.

I can post some pics of the difference on the rods as I've got both style headrests loose downstairs.

I'll have to see if I can find the listings in the parts binder to see what they list for part numbers between the 67-72 years.

also, on hurstjudges mylar comment, that's not only the 69 panels. that stuff started peeling off my 71 door panels too. not just the chrome off the plastic backing, but the backing itself came off the vinyl panel. -they're also too "puffy" with the foam under the vinyl on the panels, you can always spot a PUI door panel by how overly puffy it is

[Half-Inch Stud]

fwiw: i put 69 pattern seat overs on my 68 seat with factory headrests and they still look nice. PUI?

Have a spareset of gold/Tan 2-post headrests (pickup only)

[gto4evr]

damn this parts book is hard to decipher on these.

here's what I'm seeing:

66-67 black headrest is 7596335
68 black headrest is 7759726
69 black headrest is 8737455
70-72 black headrest is 8799215

so, based on this, 68 is a one year only headrest and I have no idea what's different about it. Could be as simple as no detent locks maybe? no proof with aftermarket stuff but the slip covers range 68-72 in the catalogs so outward appearance of a 68 should be same as 69-72 no way a slip cover for a 69-72 would fit over a 67 style.

Here's some pics of the 69 vs 70-72 difference. basically they just reversed the positions of the rods from left to right to move the machined detent slots to the opposite sides. I've never had a headrest bad enough to just cut apart to see how those rods are held in. I always assumed they were just some kind of giant U shape that they molded the foam cover around. but, i do have one headrest where those two rods are loose and wiggle back and forth independently from each other and the headrest so most likely they're pressed into some kind of plate structure up inside.

HIS, could you post up a pic of the headrest and rods from your 68 seats?

[gto4evr]

one other comment about the legendary thing......though they looked beautiful pulling them out of the box, the repop seat backs from them were an absolutely HORRIBLE fit on the seats. I had to make some serious modifications to get the side release buttons to line up because the precut slots were way off. No idea who they get them from, if it's just one supplier for all of Ames/parts place/legendary etc. I want to say they seemed short too where I had to force the bottoms down to get the screws to catch underneath. way too much tension on them. lower panels weren't bad but the backs were definitely off for fit.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

damn this parts book is hard to decipher on these.

here's what I'm seeing:

66-67 black headrest is 7596335
68 black headrest is 7759726
69 black headrest is 8737455
70-72 black headrest is 8799215

so, based on this, 68 is a one year only headrest and I have no idea what's different about it. Could be as simple as no detent locks maybe?
HIS, could you post up a pic of the headrest and rods from your 68 seats?

I could a wee later. The only diff is the detents are clocked differently in the Posts. a 69-72 Headrests will slide-in but won't grab the 68 catch.

Frustrating also is the Seat-top catch covers are different enough that the 69 repops won't fit onto the 68 catch.

You got to match the 68 headrest stuff to play well. Just maybe 6972 catches and internal slides will graft onto a 68 seatback but my memory says the headrest internals were spot welded.

[gtobird]

All of the information posted thus far is really helpful. Thanks everyone for the research you did and pictures you've posted along with your personal experiences. For what it's worth, my 68 Bird's headrests have some similar unique one year anomalies.

All of this dialog caused me to take a look at the pressed part of the seat covers in my wagon. They were from PUI and again, have been on there about 17 years. Other than the vinyl being cracked in one place and worn, the covers themselves look pretty good, even in the heat pressed area, though they don't look as "full" between the press lines as the Legendary front seat pictures posted earlier.