[hobbygto65]

This may be a stupid question but how do get one of these to fit a Pontiac block?

[Va68goat]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Yes, there are mods for the earlier cases for improved cooling/fluid circulation, so other than the lines there's no reason to choose one over the other.

Jake and Chris at CK are friends and speak regularly, they sell each other's parts too.

.

I'm glad I was able to grab the newer 4L80E and have it be a local builder. I spoke to a few guys that installed the newer version of the 4L80E in their 68 GTO and they all said I'd have to dimple the tunnel but no hacking! I'm looking forward to getting this trans installed!

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by hobbygto65

This may be a stupid question but how do get one of these to fit a Pontiac block?

Either and aftermarket bell housing ($$) or adapter plate.

[punkin]

Originally Posted by hobbygto65

This may be a stupid question but how do get one of these to fit a Pontiac block?

I've got an IAII block, it will accept the Chevy bolt pattern. I'm not sure if there's an adapter or aftermarket bell housing.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by punkin

I've got an IAII block, it will accept the Chevy bolt pattern. I'm not sure if there's an adapter or aftermarket bell housing.

That's the nice thing about those IA2's and MR1's, they have multi bolt patterns.
And being a 1st gen you have another benefit. The trans tunnels in the 1st gen F-bodies are pretty spacious considering the cars size. The swaps I've done in those are much easier to deal with than say, a 2nd Gen F-body. Even though the outward appearance makes it seem like everything is bigger, the trans tunnels are a bit tighter in those.

[punkin]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That's the nice thing about those IA2's and MR1's, they have multi bolt patterns.
And being a 1st gen you have another benefit. The trans tunnels in the 1st gen F-bodies are pretty spacious considering the cars size. The swaps I've done in those are much easier to deal with than say, a 2nd Gen F-body. Even though the outward appearance makes it seem like everything is bigger, the trans tunnels are a bit tighter in those.

I thank you. I found a couple threads in chevy forum where it seems only minor tunnel dimpling had to be done to fit in first gen camaros. Drive shaft, yoke and cross member seems to be the worst of it. Just wish the transmissions weren't so darn expensive.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by punkin

I thank you. I found a couple threads in chevy forum where it seems only minor tunnel dimpling had to be done to fit in first gen camaros. Drive shaft, yoke and cross member seems to be the worst of it. Just wish the transmissions weren't so darn expensive.

Look for a low mileage drop out.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Look for a low mileage drop out.

Specifically a 2WD mechanically injected diesel 2500 or 3500 GM truck\van from '91-93, get everything and you'll have a practically drop-in transmission conversion for any old car. Those cars had a standalone computer and harness for the transmission alone and didn't need anything other than a TPS to run. The trucks are still "new" enough that you can find them in salvage yards regularly.

If you are friends with the diesel folks, they often give the computers and harnesses away for dirt cheap prices because they're all 6.2 folks and 6.2 folks recognize bargains. The only hard work needed is getting the speedometer functioning.

[AIR RAM]

Im still on the fence between running a TH400 with Gear Vendor or go with a 4L80E with GV .... With all the torque Pontiac's tend to make, it can really take advantage of some steep over drive ratios. Also with the ability to split the lower gears at WOT means less of an RPM drop between shifts.... I am currently leaning towards the TH400 /GV combination as I feel it will be the easiest to maintain and use. It would be all manual/mechanical, very little to go wrong. However I still like the idea of a full automatic ECM controlled trans... adding a GV would give it 8 FWD gears with very small drops in RPMs between shifts ... I am just not so sure the 4L80E can be made as strong as the TH400.

If the GV was not in the equation, the 4L80E would be a great option for daily driven vehicles. I had a 700R4 in my 69 Bird and really enjoyed it. But the 700 will not cut it for my current build.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

[Ben M.]

My only real complaint with the GV unit (other than the cost that hasn't gone down since they came on the market) is that they want you to change the fluid in the unit every oil change. Or at least they did a few years back when I looked at them. That's just a headache and a half for those of us who drive regularly.

That it's an aftermarket piece that can leave you stranded compared to a production part from a big name (TH400 or 4L80E) is a concern but not that big compared to the fluid change requirements.

[72projectbird]

There's no way I'd run a GV over a 4L80 if I had the option.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by AIR RAM

Im still on the fence between running a TH400 with Gear Vendor or go with a 4L80E with GV .... With all the torque Pontiac's tend to make, it can really take advantage of some steep over drive ratios. Also with the ability to split the lower gears at WOT means less of an RPM drop between shifts.... I am currently leaning towards the TH400 /GV combination as I feel it will be the easiest to maintain and use. It would be all manual/mechanical, very little to go wrong. However I still like the idea of a full automatic ECM controlled trans... adding a GV would give it 8 FWD gears with very small drops in RPMs between shifts ... I am just not so sure the 4L80E can be made as strong as the TH400.

If the GV was not in the equation, the 4L80E would be a great option for daily driven vehicles. I had a 700R4 in my 69 Bird and really enjoyed it. But the 700 will not cut it for my current build.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

You need to do some background on the GV unit, they didn't design it. They bought the right to manufacture it from Laycock de Normanville in the UK. It was designed initially for 4 cylinder British cars the upgraded for six cylinder cars later. They do break, you cannot buy parts from GV, only send the unit back to them to have the damage repaired. They're the only game in that town.

They have a small electronic logic unit that keeps you from engaging reverse while in OD, if you bypass the unit and accidentally engage reverse you will destroy the internals. They require frequent lube changes and will be damaged if the the lube changes aren't adhered to. They have an oil pump and their own sump which doesn't hold much lube necessitating the lube changes. I don't believe they have any filter in the system, I can't remember certainly though

GV touts their unit as indestructible, they are far from indestructible and have their Achilles heel in more than one portion of the engineering.

I spent a great deal of time weeding out every OD unit, and transmission a few years back, and determined for the money and strength the 4L80E provides, it is the best bang for the buck. Last I checked the GV unit was hoovering around $3200, add that to a T400 if you don't already have a good one.

You may theoretically have 6 forward speeds with the T400 GV unit, you most likely won't use all of them accelerating under full power such as a drag strip pass.

Roughly 75% of the internals of the 4L80E interchange with a T400. It is essentially a T400 with an factory engineered OD added to it and electronically controlled. There have been a few upgrades to the 4L80E over the T400 making it very capable of handling high HP street strip applications. The basic design has been successfully used since 1964 by GM, as well as in many drag cars.

I'm not trying to influence you one way or the other, just make available what I learned when I first considered an OD for my street car project.

[ponjohn]

You can find the Laycock unit around for little money. The proprietary component that is very difficult or next to impossible is the adapter coupling from trans to OD unit.

If you could make that coupling the Laycock unit can be a very inexpensive solution.

I prefer an all in one unit and will be using a 4l80 in my 73 Ventura.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by AIR RAM

Im still on the fence between running a TH400 with Gear Vendor or go with a 4L80E with GV .... With all the torque Pontiac's tend to make, it can really take advantage of some steep over drive ratios. Also with the ability to split the lower gears at WOT means less of an RPM drop between shifts.... I am currently leaning towards the TH400 /GV combination as I feel it will be the easiest to maintain and use. It would be all manual/mechanical, very little to go wrong. However I still like the idea of a full automatic ECM controlled trans... adding a GV would give it 8 FWD gears with very small drops in RPMs between shifts ... I am just not so sure the 4L80E can be made as strong as the TH400.

If the GV was not in the equation, the 4L80E would be a great option for daily driven vehicles. I had a 700R4 in my 69 Bird and really enjoyed it. But the 700 will not cut it for my current build.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

While I do tend to like the Gear Vendor for certain applications, namely those that have a perfectly working trans to start with, it does have it's drawbacks.

The .78 overdrive isn't a bunch, but it does help. Myself I prefer more overdrive ratio than that. But it's an option for those that like their current trans and just want a little extra help on the highway.

Another thing to consider is the gear splitting. While that is one of their big advertising angles, trying to do that at WOT is extremely difficult. It's not a "smart" unit so it doesn't sense upshifts.
In other words if you want to gear split, first you have to manually turn the switch on for 1-over, then as you shift to second, at the exact same time you have to manually turn the gear vendor off for 2nd, then press the button again for 2nd-over, when you shift to 3rd you have to manually turn the gear vendor off again at the same time, otherwise you'll have 3rd over and big rpm drop, then on again for 3rd over at the next shift point. The problem starts if you have a car with any decent amount of power that requires attention under WOT, you can pretty much forget about racing and splitting gears. I don't know about you or others, but I can't manually shift the trans and turn a switch off at the same time (simultaneously) while at least keeping one hand on the wheel and pointing the car straight. It's just not doable with my street cars. Maybe with a 13 or 14 second ride where you have more time and a car that practically drives itself, but anything with a decent amount of power is going to be near impossible. So I don't even consider the gear splitting option as a selling point.
However if you want it simply for the addition of a .78 overdrive, they do work pretty well in that scenario.

Me personally, I'd rather have it all wrapped up in one transmission. The 4L80E, although not much better with a .75 overdrive, is a very capable trans. There are a ton of drag week guys putting down 1500+ HP through 4L80E's and they survive just fine if built properly.
Gear Vendor is also seen on many or even most of the drag week cars, but they are used for highway cruising. Those guys don't bother with gear splitting at the track. When you have a bunch of power you don't need to gear split anyway. In fact talking to Gear Vendor, if you have a 500+ HP/TQ car or more, they'll tell you that you won't benefit from gear splitting at the track, you already have enough engine to carry through the rpm range.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Does CK build at his shop or does he just sell parts?

He builds at his shop, he's pretty much a 1-man operation, his wife mans the phone and paperwork I believe.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Like I mentioned, Chris at CK and Jake speak regularly, and share info and parts. They use the same converter folks too. Jake has Transmission Specialties do custom ones for him too. TS sells both their' parts and transmissions through their' site as well.

The core upgrades, aside from valve body and case mods, are the input shaft and drum, big power units get a mainshaft upgrade. Even on a street/strip car, you should opt for the input and drum, will make it last forever in a <750hp/750tq car/truck. Only minor clutch and other parts will be needed to freshen them over the life of several engines/cars.

https://tsirace.com/

Looks like their' billet cover lockups went up in price since I bought one, but they are indestructible, rebuildable, and can be restalled once after purchase at no charge. You could save a little by having a billet cover and disc upgrades done to one of the street converters, but don't think the will restall for free.

One big thing is being able to do WOT upshifts with the converter locked, but usually only drag racers want that. If you don't race you can skip the costs, but it's nice to have just in case.

Basically, if you do it right, you will never need to buy another trans again.

.

[69f bird]

I've been following this with great interest, as I am considering the 4L80e upgrade for my '69 Firebird. Can anyone recommend a shop in the central New Jersey area that con do the swap for me? I'm interested in a turn-key solution, including the computer tune and the speedometer functioning properly. Thank you!

[HWYSTR455]

CK is very close to you, and sure Chris can recommend an installer. Can mention my name, Mike, it may help.

https://www.ckperformance.com/

For a speedo, I recommend upgrading to an electronic speedo, or if you want to keep the OE one, have it converted. Either way will most likely be less expensive than the tail housing or cable drive boxes.

.

[Formulajones]

CK is in New York. I don't want to deal with something like this on the other side of the country. I'm sure he's good and I'd consider it if I lived over there.

Jake is in Texas and not that far, I can deal with that. I know he does good work, however his base 750hp 4L80E is over $1,000 higher than everyone else, he's even $1,000 higher than Hughes for the same trans, who is considered by some to be expensive, lol. I'm not one to complain much about costs and I believe you get what you pay for, but $3250 just for the trans is more than I care to spend for a 4L80E

[krisr]

Originally Posted by hobbygto65

This may be a stupid question but how do get one of these to fit a Pontiac block?

By cutting off the bellhousing, sending your oil pump to CK to get a machined front half and his adapter ring to run a Reid bellhousing or run an adapter plate and get a custom converter made with a longer pilot/spaced to suit thickness of the adapter plate.