[rohrt]

I'm wondering why Butler doesn't carry the FEL-1016 head gaskets.

They recommend the Cometic MLS Head Gaskets to me for my 60 over 455.

There is like a $150 difference between the two. Same crush spec. I don't see the benefit.


https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234803

vs

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1016

[25stevem]

I have run the 1016s in my 8 lb boosted 650 hp motor without issue for years and this was with bolts no less!
If your not planing on making over 700 hp I woukd keep the cash in your pocket.

[Cliff R]

I use the 8518's here for all street and most street/strip engines. i'll upgrade to Cometics on occasion if it's really high compression and race only. Otherwise never had the first issue one with the standard Perma-Torque 8518 blue gaskets.

I will add that all engines built here are decked/squared and either new heads or resurfaced factory heads. This insures the best possible sealing environment for whatever gaskets you end up using......

[rohrt]

The 8518 are even cheaper. I guess I need to compare the 1016 with the 8518s and see what the difference is.

and I will only be making at most 450hp.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I'm wondering why Butler doesn't carry the FEL-1016 head gaskets.

They recommend the Cometic MLS Head Gaskets to me for my 60 over 455.

There is like a $150 difference between the two. Same crush spec. I don't see the benefit.


https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234803

vs

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1016

Cometic head gaskets are reusable; they are also a “must”(IMO) due to the difference in the expansion rates in aluminum heads and iron blocks.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Cometic head gaskets are reusable; they are also a “must”(IMO) due to the difference in the expansion rates in aluminum heads and iron blocks.

Exactly, aluminum. If you have iron heads, the 1016 is the go-to, for the most part.

Installed properly, Cometics are about the best there is for a Pontiac.

Cometics on iron heads works, but it's kind of overkill.

Pretty sure the are Cometics are made for specific bores, so keep that in mind too. Some bore sizes are 'custom' order, which can drive the price up. (And wait time)

.

[78w72]

why are they a must? myself & countless others are running the felpro 1016 on alum heads with zero issues. my 467 is only at 10.75 comp but the head gaskets are doing fine fior 6-7 years now & lots of low 11sec drag strip runs & many street miles. dont see any signs or reasons that they arent acceptable for alum heads. my engine builder didnt mention anything about using them either.

[HWYSTR455]

The 1016s have a coating that help them seal. When you take that engine apart, you will see why it's a must. That coating, to my knowledge, can only be removed by surfacing the head, and could potentially cause sealing issues, especially if you switch to an MLS type gasket.

Also, 1016s only come in one bore size.


.

[Cliff R]

First 455 6X-4 heads at 10 to 1 compression, Ran it from 1999 to 2004 with 8018's. Probably close to 1000 dragstrip runs and many thousands of street miles zero issues.

Same 455 added KRE heads and 8018's in 2004, and a HR cam couple years later and ran it 5 more years no issues.

Next 455 11.3 to 1 compression and CNC ported 76 cc chamber heads from Dave at SD. Ran it till sold a couple of months ago and zero issues with the 8018 head gaskets.

The 1016's are dubbed as an "upgrade" over the 8018's and don't cost that much more, so going that direction you might sleep a little better at night.......

[mgarblik]

I just put together a 400 with E-heads and David Butler recommended their own proprietary "Fitsgerald pattern" head gasket for it. It is a black composite on one side that goes toward the head and a thin steel shim that goes against the block. First time using it, but that's what he recommended so I am trying it. Reasonably priced and he was aware of my 10.25 compression ratio and projected 500+ expected HP. Might want to call them back and speak to David. Personally, not a big fan of Cometic gaskets in a 100% street application especially with antifreeze/coolant in the mix. I have found them to weep a little coolant and requiring stop leak for street use. If your making big HP, then you have to live with them. I generally run just water when using cometic gaskets. Check the Butler web site for the gaskets I am referring to.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I just put together a 400 with E-heads and David Butler recommended their own proprietary "Fitsgerald pattern" head gasket for it. It is a black composite on one side and a thin steel shim that goes against the aluminum head. First time using it, but that's what he recommended so I am trying it. Reasonably priced and he was aware of my 10.25 compression ratio and projected 500+ expected HP. Might want to call them back and speak to David. Personally, not a big fan of Cometic gaskets in a 100% street application especially with antifreeze/coolant in the mix. I have found them to weep a little coolant and requiring stop leak for street use. If your making big HP, then you have to live with them. I generally run just water when using cometic gaskets. Check the Butler web site for the gaskets I am referring to.

A hybrid gasket? That's interesting, I'm curious now...

.

[mgarblik]

Here is a link to the gaskets I mentioned. https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1459615

I made an installation edit in post #10. It is correct now.

[HWYSTR455]

That's opposite of the way I thought, towards head, maybe I have it backwards!

.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I'm wondering why Butler doesn't carry the FEL-1016 head gaskets.

They recommend the Cometic MLS Head Gaskets to me for my 60 over 455.

There is like a $150 difference between the two. Same crush spec. I don't see the benefit.


https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234803

vs

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1016

Butler doesn't stock the 1016 gaskets because they don't like them. They decided to manufacture there own head gaskets when Jim failed to convince Fel-pro to make some changes to their design.... Fwiw

[racegto65]

Originally Posted by rohrt

The 8518 are even cheaper. I guess I need to compare the 1016 with the 8518s and see what the difference is.

and I will only be making at most 450hp.

The biggest difference is the 1016's have a pre-flattened steel wire ring.

From Fel-Pro website: (Fel-Pro Performance head gaskets accommodate the high cylinder pressures and cylinder head movement associated with performance engines.
Inserted within a stainless-steel armor surrounding each cylinder, wire ring design provides highly concentrated sealing around the combustion chamber.
Raises combustion sealing force to roughly three times that of standard head gaskets.
Steel wire rings for the greatest combustion seal strength.)
Been using 106's on my 14:1edelbrock head race motor for years never had a failure
Just my 2¢

[rohrt]

What is the consensus on reusing existing felpro gaskets?

[mgarblik]

I do not re-use any head gasket with the exception of dead soft copper. Even Cometic gaskets get replaced every time they are removed. The black Butler gasket comes off in shreds and is very difficult to clean. This is just from my one experience using it on my torque plate.

[tc]

I use the 8518's, but do not reuse them. The engine is 450-475 hp.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by rohrt

What is the consensus on reusing existing felpro gaskets?

quick search on here or out there on the interwebs turns up quite a bit of info on reusing felpros... most say its fine & they have done it without any issues, some that may or may not have actually done it say you cant... i'd trust the ones with actual experience personally.

http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=423816

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=803067

edit: for something as critical as a head gasket, its probably a good idea to not take a chance & reuse felpros when they are readily available & not too expensive compared to the possible expense of a failed head gasket.

[73LeMans]

I keep a spare, used, 1016 for emergencies, but I don't typically reuse them. Cheap insurance to have new ones if/when the times comes. Probably excessive, but even on my last tear down after only 500 miles, I used new head gaskets.

Some could say that's a waste of money, but I look at it as not having to do the job 2x.