[Rich_G]

I've been trying to find out how the production numbers for a given year (say in the 63-66 range) work. Specifically I am trying to find out how early or late a car was built for that model year. All of my searches result in a lot of discussion on the production numbers for a specific model/engine combo - and like we all know that information is not available.

Let me toss out the specific questions and see where the general knowledge of the group takes us.

- were sequence numbers shared between models? I think the answer is yes
- were sequence numbers restarted at each model year? I think the answer is also yes.
- how many vehicles were produced at the various factories per model year?
- when did building start and finish for a given year? I would imagine this varies from plant to plant to model.


Any help with information or pointers to where I can find information would be greatly appreciated.

Rich

[Keith Seymore]

So when you say "production numbers" - do you mean build quantities (production volume), or body shop/general assembly sequence numbers?

Barring that, I would answer your specific questions as follows:

Q- were sequence numbers shared between models? I think the answer is yes
A - yes and no. Typically there was a body shop sequence number assigned (which followed the vehicle through paint) and then a separate and distinct general assembly sequence number. Body shop numbers can be grouped within categories (ie, hardtop, coupe and convertible, within a major heading of A body, B body, etc). In plants with a body bank, or accumulator, between body and paint and another between paint and trim/GA, the vehicle order can be shuffled for down stream work load leveling or to accommodate part/material shortages. The vehicles are build in GA sequence order once that is locked in. The GA sequence number was "king" and was how the vehicle was referenced until it left the plant.

Q- were sequence numbers restarted at each model year? I think the answer is also yes.
A - Depends. If there was a total shutdown and purge then I would say yes. However, if it was more of a "rolling model change" then I would say no. I have experienced some model changeovers where even the VIN sequence did not reset to zero - the sequential portion of the VIN just kept climbing

Q- how many vehicles were produced at the various factories per model year?
A - varies based on line rate (jobs per hour), number of production shifts (one, two or three), amount of overtime on the weekend, and number of production days per year. All of that varies specifically based on market conditions at the time, meaning how well that product is selling. (oh - and some plants had more than one production line under the same roof)

Q- when did building start and finish for a given year? I would imagine this varies from plant to plant to model.
A - It does vary from plant to plant and (to some degree by model, since a plant might start with one model and roll in other model or even nameplates in a gradual way). Typically the "home plant" in Pontiac Michigan would start off and then the launch team would travel to the other locations helping them get fired up using the lessons learned from Pontiac. Assembly plants normally would shut down in the summer (late July) for "changeover", the length of which depended on the amount of production redesign or process upgrades. Start of Production would normally be in September with vehicle invoices starting on Sept 21.

These days the start time is a little less rigid, especially as the manufacturers try to beat each other to the punch with new models, the start of production can get earlier and earlier. For example, we launched the '02 Cadillac Escalade on January 2 of 2001, about nine months earlier than a traditional model year.

"Gunnels Standard Catalog of Pontiac" has the start/finish dates for the various model years listed in detail. It does not say which plant (I assume the home plant; I also suppose I could ask him).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Rich_G

Specifically I am trying to find out how early or late a car was built for that model year.

In my zeal to provide the most detailed answer to your specific questions I may have missed the most obvious and straightforward answer:

Look at the date code on the cowl data plate: an "09" or "10" (ie September or October) would be "early"; and "06" or "07" (June or July) would be "late".

You can also look at the sequential portion of the VIN: small number = "early", big number = "late".

K

[Rich_G]

Thanks Keith, yes production volume. I'll have to dig up the Gunnel book.

[Keith Seymore]

There were separate VIN sequences based on engine type (6 cylinder might start with 600001, vs V8 cars with 100001) and for assembly plants that build multiple name plates (Buick, Olds, Pontiac) on the same line there could be different VIN sequence starting points.

Other than that none of the build sequence numbers differentiate based on option content.

K

[66 Wagon]

Keith, my Linden assembled '66 Bonneville 4-door has 8583 as the sequence number on the body tag.
Does that mean it was the 8,583rd Bonneville built, or the 8.583rd Pontiac (any model) or the 8,5583rd 4-door Pontiac?
As you can tell I have no clue what the serial number on the body tag is

[bob6258]

I worked on the assembly line at the Pontiac, Mi. assembly plant in 1966, we assembled A, B and G body cars, all cars were numbered sequentially on the line no matter which body or configuration. We assembled an easy 1,000 cars a day so your VIN 8583 would have been an early car if built at the Pontiac assembly plant.

[Keith Seymore]

Thank, Bob -

Did you work on the final line, or earlier in the process?

K

[Rich_G]

Gents, keep in mind the terminology of Body Tag (mounted on the cowl) and VIN Tag (door frame for this vintage). The sequence numbers differ between those 2. 66Wagon said Body Tag and Bob mentioned VIN. My biggest take away is the dates for the annual productions. I need to compare that to the Body tag production dates. I know I took pics of them but it's easier to just head out to my storage facility and lay eyes on them. I have 1 car that I think is an early production and another that should be late in the cycle.

[bob6258]

Keith, I worked most of my years on the 2nd floor body line, plant 8. Bob

[66 Wagon]

Originally Posted by bob6258

I worked on the assembly line at the Pontiac, Mi. assembly plant in 1966, we assembled A, B and G body cars, all cars were numbered sequentially on the line no matter which body or configuration. We assembled an easy 1,000 cars a day so your VIN 8583 would have been an early car if built at the Pontiac assembly plant.

Mine's assembled on the last week of December '65 so I guess it doesn't count as an early production car

[66 Wagon]

Originally Posted by Rich_G

Gents, keep in mind the terminology of Body Tag (mounted on the cowl) and VIN Tag (door frame for this vintage). The sequence numbers differ between those 2. 66Wagon said Body Tag and Bob mentioned VIN. My biggest take away is the dates for the annual productions. I need to compare that to the Body tag production dates. I know I took pics of them but it's easier to just head out to my storage facility and lay eyes on them. I have 1 car that I think is an early production and another that should be late in the cycle.

I didn't think of that. My VIN sequence number is 149357 and my Body Tag sequence number is 8583.
Can someone explain the differences in those numbers?

The assembly plant was Linden, NJ and "12E" is the date code if that is of importance

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 66 Wagon

I didn't think of that. My VIN sequence number is 149357 and my Body Tag sequence number is 8583.
Can someone explain the differences in those numbers?

The assembly plant was Linden, NJ and "12E" is the date code if that is of importance

Please re-read my first post.

The cowl tag number was assigned and tracked the vehicle through the body shop.

The VIN was established based on the vehicle characteristics in the VIN prefix and incremented up in a sequence that was separate from both the body shop sequence and the final line/general assembly sequence number.

K