[76TA462]

For a second generation TA has anyone installed an electric fan/fans and kept the original shroud on, or does it need to be removed. Thanks.

[ZeGermanHam]

With electric fan(s) installed and the belt-driven fan removed, the shroud does not have a useful purpose any longer, since it is designed to establish a "seal" with the belt-driven fan and pull air through the entire surface area of the radiator. Does the shroud need to be removed when using electric fans? If it still fits with the electric fans installed, not necessarily, but I would remove it. It's possible that the shroud would act as an obstruction for the air being pushed out by the electric fans.

Honestly, I frequently see a lot of bad "engineering" when people install electric fans on their cars, and they often don't help the engine run any cooler. If you install an electric fan directly on the fin surface of your radiator, it's only pulling air through the part of the radiator where the fan is mounted, not the entire surface area. This is the most common folly I see. If you want to use an electric fan correctly, it needs to be installed in conjunction with its own shroud (not the original) so that it can pull air through the entire radiator. Also needs to have flaps to allow for air passage at higher speeds. Very unlikely that an electric fan with its own shroud will fit underneath the OEM shroud. You can see where this is going...

Personally, I just stick with a belt-driven fan and OEM shroud. Works in my GTO. Works in my BMW track car that lives at WOT for extended periods of time on the road course. Unless you're going for every tenth at the drag strip, I don't see the point.

[Steve C.]

Agree, the shroud is designed to establish a "seal" with the belt-driven fan and pull air through the entire surface area of the radiator.

NOT a recommendation on my part.... but. If trying to do so the right way to do it would be to mount the electric fan at the opening of the shroud. The position of the fan blades in the shroud is very important to maximize airflow. The shroud being somewhat sealed to the radiator and doing this allows the electric fan to pull air thru the entire radiator not just a small part of it.


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[Steve C.]

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII Electric Fan. Automotive hobbyists of all sorts prefer the Lincoln Mark VIII fan for its tremendous pulling power. Interesting to imagine a similar pulling power mounted in the shroud opening !

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/10/Mark8Fan/

There are hundreds of electric radiator fans available in the boneyard in a variety of sizes, many of which are dictated by space considerations. If fan depth isn't critical, the consensus among confirmed junkyard builders is the Lincoln Mark VIII 18-inch fan or Ford's slightly smaller, 17-inch Taurus LS/'95 Thunderbird/'95 Cougar 17-inch fan are the best. These fans move a serious amount of air, which is why they are so popular with car builders. The hero is obviously the 18-inch, big-dog Lincoln fan, which is still relatively easy to find in the boneyards.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...radiator-fans/

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[leeklm]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII Electric Fan. Automotive hobbyists of all sorts prefer the Lincoln Mark VIII fan for its tremendous pulling power. Interesting to imagine a similar pulling power mounted in the shroud opening !

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/10/Mark8Fan/

There are hundreds of electric radiator fans available in the boneyard in a variety of sizes, many of which are dictated by space considerations. If fan depth isn't critical, the consensus among confirmed junkyard builders is the Lincoln Mark VIII 18-inch fan or Ford's slightly smaller, 17-inch Taurus LS/'95 Thunderbird/'95 Cougar 17-inch fan are the best. These fans move a serious amount of air, which is why they are so popular with car builders. The hero is obviously the 18-inch, big-dog Lincoln fan, which is still relatively easy to find in the boneyards.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...radiator-fans/

.

Yep, I purchased a Mark8 fan on ebay for around $100 and another $200 for a good controller. Fits perfect on my 1st Gen radiator and zero complaints or cooling issues. I sealed edges of shroud with rubber fuel line to protect the radiator surface, made a couple of aluminum brackets for mounting. Piece of cake and while not OEM, it looks plenty good to the eye!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Tom Vaught]

Can't disagree on the Mark VIII electric fan system, as it is a extremely well engineered system, used by many who do not drive Ford vehicles. A 37 amp alternator is not going to cut it with a Lincoln Mark VIII fan system though.

More to it than just the junk yard fan and shroud.

Tom V.

[RocktimusPryme]

How much do people still trust those famed junkyard fans of old? The mark viii, Taurus, and thunderbird fans are legendary, but they are also almost 30 years old now. The Dorman type replacement models have a mixed reputation as I understand it.

At what point as a mater of practicality do we start looking for newer options that are both more widely available and have far less wear and tear on them?

I’m curious if anyone has some success stories with something from the 2010s.

[i82much]

I am pretty happy with my flex a lite dual 12 inch setup. Seems to do well at idle compared to a mechanical fan. Have not overheated my 505 yet, although it is not an A/C car and I am too wimpy to drive it on really hot days any more.

I do like mechanical fans for towing, though. That was one of the selling points for me on getting a gas HD truck (6.0 vortec) instead of a half ton. When the engine is pulling hard, a mechanical fan can pull a crazy amount of air.

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

How much do people still trust those famed junkyard fans of old? The mark viii, Taurus, and thunderbird fans are legendary, but they are also almost 30 years old now. The Dorman type replacement models have a mixed reputation as I understand it.

At what point as a mater of practicality do we start looking for newer options that are both more widely available and have far less wear and tear on them?

I’m curious if anyone has some success stories with something from the 2010s.

I see that you can buy a new replacement motor for the Mark VIII fan assembly made by VDO for $40 (Rock Auto). No brand is infallible, but VDO is an OEM supplier to a number of automakers. Maybe that's a decent solution should something go wrong with a scrapyard fan.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

I see that you can buy a new replacement motor for the Mark VIII fan assembly made by VDO for $40 (Rock Auto). No brand is infallible, but VDO is an OEM supplier to a number of automakers. Maybe that's a decent solution should something go wrong with a scrapyard fan.

I had the same thought with VDO, but I bought a VDO branded Taurus fan, and got sent a clearly not what I ordered 13” fan. They later pulled the availability of that part after I sent mine back. It may be back supplied again now. I’m generally a fan of Rock Auto. Love their website layout. But I’m a bit untrusting of the fan stuff after that.

And still, the book has been out of those fans for 20 years. They flat out aren’t as easy to find as they once were, and because of the name value are often overpriced for a 30 year old fan.

I can’t imagine fans are worse today, new cars have fewer over heating problems than ever. It just comes down to hot rodders figuring out what works. I think one of the problems is that it’s hard to backyard measure cfm airflow

[Steve C.]

There is no common industry standard for rating electric fans. Most companies use a cfm rating, often expressed in free-flow and not when placed behind a radiator. You can never know for certain about different cfm ratings or how a company has rated their fan since they can be tested by different criteria and methods. In comparison between brands using cfm ratings alone is difficult, typically not apples-to-apples.

Well touted and among the better companies.... https://www.spalusa.com/

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[taalltheway]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

Honestly, I frequently see a lot of bad "engineering" when people install electric fans on their cars, and they often don't help the engine run any cooler. If you install an electric fan directly on the fin surface of your radiator, it's only pulling air through the part of the radiator where the fan is mounted, not the entire surface area. This is the most common folly I see. If you want to use an electric fan correctly, it needs to be installed in conjunction with its own shroud (not the original) so that it can pull air through the entire radiator. Also needs to have flaps to allow for air passage at higher speeds. Very unlikely that an electric fan with its own shroud will fit underneath the OEM shroud. You can see where this is going...

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That Statement is the main truth of this thread. If you go Electric buy a complete Setup with ist own shroud or fabricate a shroud. Otherwise you will only use About half your coolers capacity...

[highway star]

Originally Posted by 76TA462

For a second generation TA has anyone installed an electric fan/fans and kept the original shroud on, or does it need to be removed. Thanks.

Yes. I mounted the efan to two aluminum strips, then bent and bolted the top of the strips
to the holes where the shroud bolts on top, bent the bottoms and hooked them under the bottom
of the shroud. No rubbing on the radiator.

[BDHABT]

Back in the day,we ran 2 Perma cool electric fans,55gpm Meizere electric water pump,and 5 row brass radiator.Engine never went above 190 degrees,ever.

This was with no shroud.

[76TA462]

Thanks for all of the comments. Since going to an aluminum rad I have never had a cooling problem, both with a flex fan and my current OEM style clutch fan. The reason I am considering electric is because of a belt squeal that has dogged me for decades. It is when I rev up the car, or accelerate hard; meaning when I have fun. Today I ran the car (briefly and parked in an open garage) with the belt off. No squeal. Then I ran it with the belt on and the fan off. No squeal. Then put the fan back on and the squeal is back. It seems to be due to fan drag. I have done all the tricks over the years, soap, sanding pulleys, sanding belts, different belts (Gatorback and regular) and no long-term fix. I had the problem with my original V-Belt OEM system, and although better with my current serpentine system, it persists. Sometimes relief when I really tighten the belt but a couple years ago that resulting in my alternator bearing packing it in. I have aligned the pulleys perfectly. And ever since going to a quicker revving roller cam etc. build …… So based on the above tests, getting rid of the mechanical fan seems to be the solution. Sucks because I like the OEM fan and shroud look, but not enough to keep it. And sucks because I know not everyone has this problem. And sucks because it costs.

[RocktimusPryme]

I may have missed this when I read, but have you ever changed the fan clutch? Could that be the source of the noise?

[76TA462]

For the longest time I used a flex fan. I swapped to a clutch fan a while back to get a more OEM look and chance the squeal would be gone. I bought the clutch from Ames, and then a second from Ames as well. Same result. I am still thinking of even tightening the belt more, but for sure from the above test, it is fan drag. Belts are new or near new. A Continental, Napa and Gatorback. Getting really good at swapping these out. LOL. My serpentine system is a March. As a straight bolt on it was out of alignment and was easily fixed with some spacers behind the idler pulley. Not sure if the engine upgrades have any bearing on this. Lots of quick torque and the squeal is only under hard accel or quick revs.

[Formulabruce]

Belt squeal? Take your belt to NAPA and get a wider belt, same length.
Even "kits" with fan and rectangular thin shroud are NOT
Designed by engineers. Common sense will tell you Air does NOT like sharp corners. Even a 2 inch thick "Shroud" does not allow much air outside the fan circle to pass through, greatly diminishing the efficiency.
I have a huge folder of pics of cooling fails. I guess it's easy to think that someone who makes a "shroud" or no shroud, just fans, will be better than stock.. 90% of the time it is not true.
Copper transfers heat at 4+ times of aluminium, but new technology has made aluminum very efficient.