MotorTrend and car of the year.... - PY Online Forums

Goatman · #1 12-15-2003, 06:26 AM

Just starting to read the article and the first paragraph in the "performance" section says this:

"Our best 0-60 was 5.0 seconds for the Mitsubishi Evolution, followed by the Subaru WRX STi at 5.1. Both beat the Corvette small block powered GTO, which takes 5.3 seconds to 60...."

"The quarter mile king is the STi, with a 13.35-second, 102.58 run, edging out the heavier, more powerful Jaguar XJR (13.58/106.81)" a fine testament to Tom Vaught as he works on that program. "The GTO comes in forth, with with numbers of 13.62/104.78."

LOL

How does Pontiac expect to sell these again?

Let's see:

They get worse gas milage.
They don't look anywhere near the part.
They're slower.
They're more expensive to ensure.
They're more dangerous in the hands of an average driver (rear wheel drive vs all wheel).
They cost more.

Yeah, I need one......

You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!

Goatman · #2 12-15-2003, 06:26 AM

Just starting to read the article and the first paragraph in the "performance" section says this:

"Our best 0-60 was 5.0 seconds for the Mitsubishi Evolution, followed by the Subaru WRX STi at 5.1. Both beat the Corvette small block powered GTO, which takes 5.3 seconds to 60...."

"The quarter mile king is the STi, with a 13.35-second, 102.58 run, edging out the heavier, more powerful Jaguar XJR (13.58/106.81)" a fine testament to Tom Vaught as he works on that program. "The GTO comes in forth, with with numbers of 13.62/104.78."

LOL

How does Pontiac expect to sell these again?

Let's see:

They get worse gas milage.
They don't look anywhere near the part.
They're slower.
They're more expensive to ensure.
They're more dangerous in the hands of an average driver (rear wheel drive vs all wheel).
They cost more.

Yeah, I need one......

You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!

Goatman · #3 12-15-2003, 06:29 AM

PS. The Toyota Pirus won. Beat out all the big names, including BMW, Caddy, Audi, Acura, Nissan, Ford, Volkswagon, and the list goes on.....

You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!

rumair · #4 12-15-2003, 06:48 AM

how can the gto be slower when it pulls more mph than the sti? where did the gto's mph rank in comparison to the other cars in the test?

in the real world a race between a stock gto and a stock sti would be a joke.

97 Trans Am WS6
12.13 @ 114.6
M6, stock heads, stock bottom end
74 Formula 455
11.84 @ 116.33
3800 lbs., d-ports, 9" slicks

Goatman · #5 12-15-2003, 06:59 AM

That was a real world race, and yes, it was a joke.

MPH is a HP indicator only. Traction is what gets it done on the dragstrip. AWD is a clear winner everytime.

Now, since both vehicles can be modded as much as you want, and you can buy a 450HP kit right from Subaru with a warranty for the STi, there is no argument.....

You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!

Jonesyisgod15 · #6 12-15-2003, 08:11 AM

explain to me this. The ford GT and Dodge Viper are compared in that mag. The GT beats the viper in accelartion but the viper beats it in 1/4 mile time even though the GT finished the 1/4 at a higher MPH how is that possiable

Good luck at your car shows hope you win 1st in the Stock Compact everyday driver nothing special about me class. Or the i want to go fast but cant afford a good car so i buy this crap and put in a sound system cauz the bass gets my A$$ down the street class. but other then that. Nice Car

rumair · #7 12-15-2003, 08:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goatman:
That was a real world race, and yes, it was a joke.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

by "real world" i meant on the street. you can talk about subaru's "450 hp kit" all day long if you want, but an otherwise stock GTO with a mild blower setup would a$$-rape the ricemobile.

IMO those track tests by the magazines are a waste of everybody's time. i'd line em up from a 30 mph roll and see who covers a given distance the quickest. another test i like is when they put the car in it's 1:1 gear and time it from 2000-6000 rpm.

i'm not trying to say the subaru isn't impressive for what it is, but at the end of the day it's still slow.

97 Trans Am WS6
12.13 @ 114.6
M6, stock heads, stock bottom end
74 Formula 455
11.84 @ 116.33
3800 lbs., d-ports, 9" slicks

Goatman · #8 12-15-2003, 08:39 AM

Rumair, how is it slow when it out 60's the GTO and beats it in the 1/4?

On the street, when things are more slippery, how are things going to get better for the already traction limited GTO?

You guys ever street race before? Ever done so in a blown TA or Vette? Not from your answers........

I have, in both, and I would have beat a blown LS1 on the street with my stock LT1 Camaro any day of the week. I used to take out blown Mustangs all the time..... Its all in the start.

You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!

Tom Vaught · #9 12-15-2003, 08:45 AM

Quote:

"explain to me this. The ford GT and Dodge Viper are compared in that mag. The GT beats the viper in accelartion but the viper beats it in 1/4 mile time even though the GT finished the 1/4 at a higher MPH how is that possiable"

TORQUE, TORQUE, TORQUE!

Most of the ET to cover the quarter mile is based
off the first 200 ft of the race. The Viper has
more initial torque combined with good hp and will
ET better even though the GT will be making more
HP at the end of the track!

Tom V.

cjwilson99 · #10 12-15-2003, 09:23 AM

The STI is an upgraded WRX. It costs about 31 or 32k. Compared to the 33k GTO, no big gap there. The STI are also a limited run in the US. I mean they will only import so many and the number is far less than the Aussie GTO.

And as far as the regular WRX the GTO will have little to worry about. My co-worker has one and we took our cars to the local 1/8th mile track one day after work. I have a 2000 ls1 z28 with the only mod being headers and a cat back. His car was WRX with a piggy back ECM, blow off valve and intercooler hoses. Neither one of us have much experience driving at the track. Both of our cars are manual trannys. I owned him on every run. By the end of the night i consistently ran 8.83 which converts to a 13.4 or 13.5 by my calculations. His WRX ran a fastest of 9.6. I am assuming the GTO would perform similarly to my z28, mid 13s. If so it need not fear a WRX. The STI does come with about 70 more hp than the regular WRX

Jonesyisgod15 · #11 12-15-2003, 09:57 AM

Tom i understand that. I guess im just confused cauz the GT had a higher MPH and better accelertation from 0-20 to 0-100 but the viper still beat it. I just dont see how a car with a higher MPH in the 1/4 and better acceleration still loose. I must be missing somthing

Good luck at your car shows hope you win 1st in the Stock Compact everyday driver nothing special about me class. Or the i want to go fast but cant afford a good car so i buy this crap and put in a sound system cauz the bass gets my A$$ down the street class. but other then that. Nice Car

Jonesyisgod15 · #12 12-15-2003, 09:59 AM

oh wait, so your telling me they dont actually do a 1/4 mile stip but just test the first 200 feet? or am i just retarted

Good luck at your car shows hope you win 1st in the Stock Compact everyday driver nothing special about me class. Or the i want to go fast but cant afford a good car so i buy this crap and put in a sound system cauz the bass gets my A$$ down the street class. but other then that. Nice Car

Goatman · #13 12-15-2003, 10:27 AM

Wilson, I think your friend has alot to learn about driving...... If you think $1000 is nothing, I'll be waiting for your check......

Jon, there are several factors to consider when two different cars are being run. Weight, engine torque, tires, power adder, transmission, etc, etc, etc.

The high MPH is common on all superchargered/turbo cars. Also, manual transmissions tend to have a higher MPH. The Viper seems to pull more on mid range than the Cobra. Not a surprise that the Cobra pulls like a raped ape on the top with the DOHC and the supercharger.

You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!

Tom Vaught · #14 12-15-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

"Tom i understand that. I guess im just confused cauz the GT had a higher MPH and better accelertation from 0-20 to 0-100 but the viper still beat it. I just dont see how a car with a higher MPH in the 1/4 and better acceleration still loose. I must be missing somthing"

Perfect example was the race with "Wheelie Boy"
and "Pontiac Dude"

Pontiac Dude's acceleration was faster over most of the length of the track but Little Jack cut a
better light (while Ken was sleeping) and took
the win. You screw up the first 200 feet of the race you better have a awesome engine to recover!

Tom V.

RUDOLFSSON · #15 12-15-2003, 12:41 PM

Here in Iceland we run better times than that on stock STi's... The fastst one runs 11.70 with some expensive "bolt-ons" (one of three fastest in Europe)... these cars fly the first 60 ft. on bad track even in rain

GOAT8U2 · #16 12-16-2003, 03:47 AM

Out of all those cars, the EVO 8 is hands down the best value. And its all year round racing on top of that.

Here in IL, AMS (local shop)has the fastest stock block, heads and turbo Mitsu EVO 8. It ran a 11.83 in the 1/4 on street tires and bolt ons!!

STOCK BIG 16G TURBO!!! Over 450 dyno pulls to date tuned with a wide band sensor every time.

My buddy has a 03 EVO 8 and had a 02 WRX. He traded in the WRX for the EVO, said they were not comparable for the money, even the STI. And for $1200 AMS can get the EVO 8's to run high 12's all day long on pump gas. They have over 450 dyno runs on the shop EVO 8 and their performance package upgrades are dialed in on these cars big time. They give the fuel maps to you in the fuel computer (AFC) for each package so its tweaked out just like if it were on the dyno getting tuned. You can not find that with the GTO.

The GTO with a blower would cost way more when you were done, and would not run an 11.8 on street tires, let alone street slicks. Due to the low psi it would have to run due to stock compression and the bottom end blowing apart, its not worth the money to try to compete. On top of that, the GTO would run even slower in the rain and snow.

The WRX is a nightmare to work on compared to the EVO 8. Pontiac dropped the ball here as I would rather buy the Dodge SRT4 Turbo over that thing, even if the GTO was $20,000.

What happened to that prototype I saw years ago in some mag? That was a GTO.

69 GTO Convertible
(Future Twin Turbo)
87 GN

HUMBLER · #17 12-16-2003, 05:33 AM

You'd rather buy a Neon than a GTO? Nuff said...

Side note, has everyone seen the "fastest street car in the world?"

Saw it on a RICE program this past weekend. AUDI TT with 400+ HP in the front and 400+ HP in the rear...yes...2 engines, AWD, street legal. 0 to 100 in 3.? seconds.

"the Humbler...the Humbler...G...T...O!"

cjwilson99 · #18 12-16-2003, 09:10 AM

I dont understand all you GTO Haters giving the GTO hell for its plain looks and then praise cars like the WRX, Evo 8, and Neon SRT4. Have you seen those cars? They are not plain. They are downright Fugly! Subaru has no real sportscar chassis to use. But what is Mitsubishi's excuse? Why dont they put the Evo 8 drivetrain in the Eclipse? The Eclipse is at least a low GT styled sports coupe(sort of).

My point is I don't consider a 4 door , 4 banger sedan a sports car. I would rather drive a 15 second firebird, camaro, gto, full size truck, mustang, charger(?), than a 9 second civic, wrx, evo, focus.

Now I think those cars are nice. Just not a sports car in my eyes.

Brad34 · #19 12-16-2003, 09:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GOAT8U2:
Out of all those cars, the EVO 8 is hands down the best value. And its all year round racing on top of that.

Here in IL, AMS (local shop)has the fastest stock block, heads and turbo Mitsu EVO 8. It ran a 11.83 in the 1/4 on street tires and bolt ons!!

STOCK BIG 16G TURBO!!! Over 450 dyno pulls to date tuned with a wide band sensor every time.

My buddy has a 03 EVO 8 and had a 02 WRX. He traded in the WRX for the EVO, said they were not comparable for the money, even the STI. And for $1200 AMS can get the EVO 8's to run high 12's all day long on pump gas. They have over 450 dyno runs on the shop EVO 8 and their performance package upgrades are dialed in on these cars big time. They give the fuel maps to you in the fuel computer (AFC) for each package so its tweaked out just like if it were on the dyno getting tuned. You can not find that with the GTO.

The GTO with a blower would cost way more when you were done, and would not run an 11.8 on street tires, let alone street slicks. Due to the low psi it would have to run due to stock compression and the bottom end blowing apart, its not worth the money to try to compete. On top of that, the GTO would run even slower in the rain and snow.

The WRX is a nightmare to work on compared to the EVO 8. Pontiac dropped the ball here as I would rather buy the Dodge SRT4 Turbo over that thing, even if the GTO was $20,000.

What happened to that prototype I saw years ago in some mag? That was a GTO.

69 GTO Convertible
(Future Twin Turbo)
87 GN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awwww......I dunno about that mate!! Contact Bill Lee of Bill Lee Performance in Perth, Western Australia or Castlemaine Rod Shop in Sydney and find out what you can do to an LS1 for $1200 USD.

As for the racing in the rain bit, watch the Australian V8 Supercars on Speed....they race in the rain. Not like in NASCAR where they ***** themselves at a raindrop falling on the windshield.

ChiefIronHorse · #20 12-16-2003, 06:19 PM

Goatman & Goat8u2,

Just curious, when was the last time you've seen a 2004 GTO race? Or is that the 'Monday morning quarterback' in you showing again? If you believe everything thing you read, then here's some interesting reading for you.

http://www.car-videos.com/performanc...D1=280&ID2=268

Yes "according" to the times, the Evo beats the GTO until they get around 100 M.P.H.. After 100 M.P.H. the GTO blows it's doors off. Same story for the WRX Sti (USA).