[Mike Smith]

My 65 GTO's wiring has lived its lifespan. Everything seems to be failing. I've tried to keep in going but its now becoming a living nightmare. I'm about to start rebuilding the car after a 25 year old simple fixer upper. The car is not all original. I want to be creative with the car. I want to build it my way, a nice restification.
Back to the topic. Is the new aftermarket wiring harnesses THE way to go or what? It just seems to be easier to use those instead of the factory harnesses. I want the car to be up to todays standards, with safety and comforts. This car is going to be a nice performing street car, and be comfortable enough to tack on trips. The way its supposed to be---Enjoyable.
thank you

[paint guy]

after having numerous problems with my son's 72 chevelle,i bought an entire kit,we installed it in a weekend.Previous to that,I purchased a terminated fuseblock and built a wiring harness for my 57 chevy.i have a kit ready to install into my 69 GTO when the car is ready for it.I don't care about originality,just reliability(hate electrical problems)everything I have re-wired so far,no problems.Also gave me a chance to install updated alt,kits come with new style fuses,heavier wire thats marked exactly what it goes to every 6 inches or so.You will have to splice in the under-dash plugs,we also retained the heater/blower harness on the chevelle(was'nt included in the kit)Kits from Easy-Wire are less than 200 bucks,would never go back to the old style stuff.All kinds of other stuff in the kits,too,like ac,power windows,electric choke,etc.Just terminate what you don't need.Just my $.02

[Lemans64]

I used M&H wiring for my 64 Lemans. Here's their website. http://www.wiringharness.com/
There harness is very nice. direct plug and play and can be modified at your request. But u can use stock wiring diagrams. Can be bought in sections unlike the aftermarket ones like painless. Good luck on whatever way u go.

Rick

[Mike Smith]

Thanks guys, I guess I just needed a push, a friend told me its not hard if you take your time. I've got plenty of that. I checked out Ron Francis wiring, I really like what he has to offer. Its kinda $$$ . But the Quality looks first rate.

Thanks again, Mike

[HWYSTR455]

I've seen many go for the Painless stuff, and to me, they are far from painless to install 'properly'. You can easily end up in worse shape than you started. The Ron Francis stuff looks a lot like the Painless stuff, IMO. Quality isn't an issue if you're getting spools of bare wire!

I've done stuff from M&H, and like the fact that it routes and troubleshoots like the factory stuff. The clips, connectors, etc are all where they're supposed to be, and as mentioned, you can order options that 'update' it more to today's standards. Thing like spade fuse blocks, HEI, internal regulators, heavier charge wires, bosch-style (or mini) relays for accessories (headlights, horn, fans, etc), heavier interior accessory wires (aftermarket stereos, with relays if desired, aftermarket gauges/clusters), and just about anything you can think of. Great turn arounds, great support, and reasonably priced.

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[Mike Smith]

thank you, HWYSTR455
That seems like the way I should go. I didnot realize M&H would go to that extreme-blade fuses and all. I will deff. give them a call. Thank you again, Mike

[paint guy]

Just as an aside:I talked to an M&H rep at Car Craft Nationals this summer, they had a booth there.My question:What would it cost to completely re-wire my GTO?His response:about 1200 bucks.Easy-wire(and others) uses updated TLX wire,costs less than $200,has more circuits,and NO connectors(separate harnesses)to corrode.I understand "plug and play"when building a car on an assembly line,but I have better things to do with a thousand dollars,especially when I'm doing EVERYTHING new on the car from the ground-up.Good luck in whatever you decide.

[HWYSTR455]

I'm not clear on that paint guy? Are you saying you can wire a whole car from scratch for 200 bucks? Wire alone would cost more than that, and how would you do it without lamp sockets, like for tail lights and marker lamps and stuff? 1200 will do the whole car, not just the dash harness. The only two harnesses that you would want to add options to, are the engine and dash harnesses. All the others, with exception to the forward light harness (you could choose to add high & low relays), would be regular stuff. On the dash harness for example, you could choose to add the option of blade-style fuses, and I think that's fairly inexpensive, maybe 40 bucks. The HEI option on the engine harness, with internal regulator, is an extra 15 bucks as I recall. They may charge you 5 or so bucks to upgrade the charge wire, maybe another 5 or so to upgrade the power wire to the firewall connector. Dash harnesses as I recall are like 400 or so these days, plus whatever options you want. So if you're talking about 200 bucks verses 400 bucks for a dash harness, and the 400 bucks is plug & play, to me, it's worth the extra 200 bucks.

As for connector corrosion, use conductive grease like you're supposed to when assembling. I believe the M&H harness come with the grease already on them...

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[paint guy]

check out ezwiring.com and keepitcleanwiring.com.Both have kits (21 circuit,18 fuses)for $185,includes GM column plugs,headlight plugs,etc.Taillight plugs are $4 at NAPA.I'll revise my estimate to $250 or so,still ALOT cheaper than M&H,painless,Ron francis,and they are a piece of cake to install because all the wires are marked every 6" or so.Like I said earlier,You'll have to get some of those small connectors to run wires into the plug that goes into the printed circuit board for the dash,and a few other plugs,but it's not that big of a deal(you could always splice and solder if you choose to,also)You also won't get any "stand alone"harnesses,Like the harness that goes from the heater switch to the blower motor,or the power window/door harness,but the kits will provide the power wires,properly fused, for each.Hope this helps.BTW,if you ever have to trouble-shoot,I imagine it will be alot easier with all the wires PLAINLY MARKED.

[Lemans64]

Originally Posted by paint guy

check out ezwiring.com and keepitcleanwiring.com.Both have kits (21 circuit,18 fuses)for $185,includes GM column plugs,headlight plugs,etc.Taillight plugs are $4 at NAPA.I'll revise my estimate to $250 or so,still ALOT cheaper than M&H,painless,Ron francis,and they are a piece of cake to install because all the wires are marked every 6" or so.Like I said earlier,You'll have to get some of those small connectors to run wires into the plug that goes into the printed circuit board for the dash,and a few other plugs,but it's not that big of a deal(you could always splice and solder if you choose to,also)You also won't get any "stand alone"harnesses,Like the harness that goes from the heater switch to the blower motor,or the power window/door harness,but the kits will provide the power wires,properly fused, for each.Hope this helps.BTW,if you ever have to trouble-shoot,I imagine it will be alot easier with all the wires PLAINLY MARKED.

PLainly marked???? Are we color blind?? I guess if u have an extra 20 or 30 hours to tape your wiring after u have finished placing it where u think it should be ok then removing tape to splice in something u forgot, I guess that would be ok. If u have lots of time on your hands, if you don't I'd recommend M&H.

[69convt]

I have used wiring from most of the vendors. I found M&H to be a little more expensive than the others, but the quality is better and installation time is a less, usually much less and their tech support is very good.

[paint guy]

Originally Posted by Lemans64

PLainly marked???? Are we color blind?? I guess if u have an extra 20 or 30 hours to tape your wiring after u have finished placing it where u think it should be ok then removing tape to splice in something u forgot, I guess that would be ok. If u have lots of time on your hands, if you don't I'd recommend M&H.

Mike smith,in the original question stated:car is not original,wants to build it his way,a nice restification.Hence,my suggestion,since thats how I like to do it,too.I don't tape my wires,it looks like crap to me,thats how it was done 40 years ago.I run them thru wire looms,that way, if I have to wire i n something I "forgot"(?),I can open up the loom,and add it.BTW,it does'nt bother me in the least that my cars are not "original"My philosophy is to try and improve where you can with updated technology.Besides, whats the difference using updated wiring vs using radials vs bias-ply tires,or base-coat/clear-coat paint vs lacquer?Those cars are'nt "original",either.Just my opinion.

[1966goat]

My uncle bought the Ron Francis kit for his Ford Tudor and said it was so easy to install it. I currently have the Painless Universal GM kit sitting under my bed, I'm going to start installing it next weekend.

Both kits have correct wire colors and have where the wires go written all along, which makes the process much simpler.

[Lemans64]

Originally Posted by paint guy

Mike smith,in the original question stated:car is not original,wants to build it his way,a nice restification.Hence,my suggestion,since thats how I like to do it,too.I don't tape my wires,it looks like crap to me,thats how it was done 40 years ago.I run them thru wire looms,that way, if I have to wire i n something I "forgot"(?),I can open up the loom,and add it.BTW,it does'nt bother me in the least that my cars are not "original"My philosophy is to try and improve where you can with updated technology.Besides, whats the difference using updated wiring vs using radials vs bias-ply tires,or base-coat/clear-coat paint vs lacquer?Those cars are'nt "original",either.Just my opinion.

Sorry Paint Guy, I was not trying to get into a Pissing match but like u just giving my opinion, M&H does give the customer the ability to modify harness to fit his needs, Plus having the ability to have plug and play front and rear harness to match. Not saying your way is bad but I like the original styling I guess, mine is not stock by any mean. Just what the customer prefers I guess. All depends on how many mods the customer wants do or how much time he has to play.

Rick

[78 GHOST]

M&H is expensive, however it's well worth the money in my opinion.

I had a few mods made to the system to permit me to run a constant 12V to the distributor, etc.

While many other setups can certainly accomplish the task, I like that the M&H system is so very thorough.

The wires are bundled with clips and retaining points at the correct locations.

The wires are labeled with correct factory wire colors, which permit you to chase any future problems using the standard factory manual. Everything is individually wrapped with a clearly marked label as to which harness it is. All the connectors and sockets are exact and are have die-electric grease preapplied. Just unwrap and install.

I have a buddy who wired up his Camaro with Painless and he said they didn't name the company properly.

I don't know about you, but I didn't want to make a career on something I really don't enjoy, and that could potentially burn my car down.

Good luck to you on your project, Matt

[Mike Smith]

I tell ya what. I enjoyed the replys guys. Its really great to see the passion espressed by us car guys. The advice was very helpful, I guess? THe plug and play, Is very nice, but we all are always looking to save some money as well. You know , saving 1000 denero could be well spent somewhere else on that car. And as far as time wiring it, I've got time.

Thanks Guys, Mike

[Formula8]

I went with EZ wire's 21 circuit kit. Not too much of a hassle and its extra capacity allows for you to make a lot of alterations to suit your individual needs. I took full advantage by adding relays for the headlamps, electric cooling fans and a fuel pump. I also added remote voltage sensing, a Ford starter solenoid and three 12V accessory sockets for my wideband. It also had wireouts for all of my Autometer guages although I ended up using a multipin connector so the guages could be taken out easily. This means you have a minimum of three solders for each connection.

My only gripes were that I had a lot of soldering to do for each connection which is pretty minor in my mind but my bigger gripe is the fuse box perfectly bolts in place of the old one but does not have a connector at the fusebox, this means you have to find a hole large enough for the entire harness (less engine and front end wiring) to come back into the car for the dash, interior and back half of the car. It appears the painless "muscle car" harness addresses this issue and although it is substaintially more expensive, I would have to take a serious look at that product if I was to do it over again.

Overall, it wasn't too bad. The wire and all is quality and 95% of it uses the same color coding as GM. It being marked is a lifesaver. The instructions are so-so and it will help to have a good understanding of the electrical system before jumping in. Once I was done, I would say it was within the top three things I am most happy with installing on my car.

[triathlonx13]

We've used "HayWire" http://www.haywireinc.com/ We re-wired a 1965 GTO. It was great. We'll use these guys again. (less expensive then painless).

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