[Hillard]

In light of seeing how many drive their older cars in the other thread, I decided to start a new one to ask about insurance. The only insurance I can seem to find is either liability only, or I'm restricted to where I can drive it and how many miles I can drive it. What do you guys do?

[1967Tempest]

There are a lot of threads on this. You need to get a collector car insurance company. I am using American Collectors.

http://www.americancollectors.com/

They have a great set-up. You pick the mileage that you want and the agreed value. If the value is below a certain $ amount, you send in pictures and you are done. If it is very expensive car value, they might need an appraisal.

If you join a Pontiac/Car club, you might get a discount. I know I do being a member of our club.

www.garden-state-gtos.org


Here are some others you might check out.

Dave

http://www.grundy.com/
http://www.hagerty.com/
http://www.heacockclassic.com/
http://www.jctaylor.com/
http://www.chubbcollectorcar.com/

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 1050goat

In light of seeing how many drive their older cars in the other thread, I decided to start a new one to ask about insurance. The only insurance I can seem to find is either liability only, or I'm restricted to where I can drive it and how many miles I can drive it. What do you guys do?

Do you drive your vintage car as a daily driver? Do you own another (non vintage) car?

If you drive your vintage car to work on a regular basis, insuring on a collector policy is not possible. If you don't own another car with a regular auto policy, once again, a collector car policy is not possible.

If your situation is as above, I'm sure you can find a regular auto policy that will allow you to have full coverage. The problem is - what will they pay you in the event of a claim?

I have my daily driver insured with a regular carrier, and my 5 collector cars insured with Hagerty. No mileage limitations, I can drive my car to work occaissionaly, but not on a regular basis.

[Steve Barcak]

Dave,
I've driven vintage Pontiacs since the mid 70s almost exclusively. Never had, or wanted, a collector policy. They have too many restrictions.
Currently have 6 policies with State Farm- 66 GTO, 72 GTO ( the one I met you with at your shop in '07), 61 Safari, 64 Catalina coupe, 59 F350, 73 yamaha. Carry full coverage on all of them with 500 deduct collision and zero deduct on glass/comp. I never get hassled when I make a claim.
Usually, some of these cars are down for repairs or restoration.. I do not need to drive them all at once. So, my agent taught me I can suspend certain policies when not being used. I keep the comp active incase of damage/theft and , by keep the policy active that way, it is a simple phone call to reactivate the policy in full. No need to reapply, etc. It works quite well and NO restrictions.

Just bought the policy for the 64 Catalina coupe on Friday, full coverage, zero deduct glass was $140 for 6 months.

No need to buy and maintain a later model car just to get cheaper insurance that limits how much I can drive my Pontiacs.
If one looks at the complete picture, it is cheaper to own an older car and pay regular ins than to own and maintain a late model to get collector.
Also, let the others who buy a late model or new car pay the high taxes, license plate fees and suffer depreciation, etc. Not me.

[rexus31]

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

Dave,
I've driven vintage Pontiacs since the mid 70s almost exclusively. Never had, or wanted, a collector policy. They have too many restrictions.
Currently have 6 policies with State Farm- 66 GTO, 72 GTO ( the one I met you with at your shop in '07), 61 Safari, 64 Catalina coupe, 59 F350, 73 yamaha. Carry full coverage on all of them with 500 deduct collision and zero deduct on glass/comp. I never get hassled when I make a claim.
Usually, some of these cars are down for repairs or restoration.. I do not need to drive them all at once. So, my agent taught me I can suspend certain policies when not being used. I keep the comp active incase of damage/theft and , by keep the policy active that way, it is a simple phone call to reactivate the policy in full. No need to reapply, etc. It works quite well and NO restrictions.

Just bought the policy for the 64 Catalina coupe on Friday, full coverage, zero deduct glass was $140 for 6 months.

No need to buy and maintain a later model car just to get cheaper insurance that limits how much I can drive my Pontiacs.
If one looks at the complete picture, it is cheaper to own an older car and pay regular ins than to own and maintain a late model to get collector.
Also, let the others who buy a late model or new car pay the high taxes, license plate fees and suffer depreciation, etc. Not me.

What would happen in the event of a total loss? Have you supplied the insurance company with appraisals?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by rexus31

What would happen in the event of a total loss? Have you supplied the insurance company with appraisals?

That's the big question...in the event of a collision, an old car has just about zip value as far as the insurance company is concerned.

[rexus31]

Originally Posted by Stuart

That's the big question...in the event of a collision, an old car has just about zip value as far as the insurance company is concerned.

Exactly my point. Without an acceptable appraisal in place, I think you would be screwed in the event of a total loss or a sizable collision.

[The Champ]

From over 10 years experience in the insurance industry - insuring a vintage car that is worth more than a typical used car of that same model and year is a very risky proposition in the event of a claim.

A $2,000.00 repair on a 1970 (insert car name here) could be considered a "total loss" by a regular insurance company.

[Stuart]

Depending on the actual value of an older car it may be less expensive in the long run to get basic liability insurance, and then simply pay out of pocket if you have collision damage.

[Stormin]

Insuring my 1976 pro street firebird has always been a difficult thing over the last many years. My wife is an insurance broker and not even she can find me a company who will take my car, aside from insuring it as a specialty vehicle.
When I had it insurred as a regular 76 formula... it was cheap.. until.. i found out.. if I made a claim for a minute amount of damage.. the vehicle probably would've been written off... and I was ok with that....UNTIL.. the insurance company sent me mail stating.. they didn't even want to insure the vehicle any more.
So.. then I had to have it appraised... AGAIN.. and find a company that would insure it as a specialty vehicle....and the premiums were based on the appraised value.. and that's pretty much how it is evrywhere.. Oh ya.. because it has a roll cage in it..they requested I do up a letter and sign it stating that I would not race the vehicle.

oh... and when you don't drive it in the off season... there is no adjustments on the insurance.. it's a yearly fee... drive it or not.

I think that's pretty much standard lately from what I've been finding out.

So... be careful... if your older car is insured as a 1970 "whatever" and you're paying a regular premium on that car.. just make sure when granny bumps into you at walmart and dents your fender.. and you make a claim.. they may just write off the car.!

take care all!
NB

[andyg]

I have my policy through Accuity. I can drive it anywhere, and have an agreed value of $25,000 and full coverage. I do pay through the nose though being 21, though no accidents. Its ~$900 for 6 months of coverage.

I considered the companies like Haggerty, but I drive my car to everywhere but mechanics and car shows so I needed to be covered. Plus I like the fact that my agents office is very close if I ever need any information or to change something.

[ericwy]

Originally Posted by The Champ

From over 10 years experience in the insurance industry - insuring a vintage car that is worth more than a typical used car of that same model and year is a very risky proposition in the event of a claim.

A $2,000.00 repair on a 1970 (insert car name here) could be considered a "total loss" by a regular insurance company.

What is typically used to determine the value? NADA?

I have always assumed that NADA's "Low Retail Value" was a reliable basis for a classic used as a daily driver.

Does the insurance industry have the same view?

[Gulliver]

The key is to use "agreed value". You say your car's worth $25k, no problem- it's insured at $25k in case of total loss. You don't have to give appraisals, NADA prices or anything else. They'll bill you based on the miles you say you want to drive, and how much YOU say it's worth, period. This is why you need the right kind of collector car insurance-there are many different kinds! Shop it and talk to the people- ask questions! It's not that hard a process to wade through. In the event of a claim, you'll know where you stand.

The problems are when folks insure their old cars through "regular" insurance companies, or through collector car companies without asking questions about how your specific policy works.. No problem until you have a claim, and your adjuster tells you your '69 GTO convertible is only worth $5500. Not the time to be trying to argue your case, it's too late then. State and agree on your value beforehand, and pay the appropriate premium. It still costs less than insuring regular late model cars.

If your insurance company is asking you to provide appraisals before or during coverage, it's time to change companies. You are NOT at their mercy!

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by ericwy

What is typically used to determine the value? NADA?

I have always assumed that NADA's "Low Retail Value" was a reliable basis for a classic used as a daily driver.

Does the insurance industry have the same view?

I would not "assume" that NADA's "Low Retail Value" would be the basis. The regular auto policy insures vehicles for "ACV or Actual Cash Value" - which is a nebulous number that is difficult to define for older vehicles.

I prefer not to have to wait until after a claim to find out how it will be settled.

That is why my vintage vehicles are all on a collector policy with a "guaranteed value" policy such as Hagerty.

If I was using one as a DD and had to insure it on a conventional policy - I would have everything about the coverage and how that insurance company would handle a claim in writing from the home office.

There are a lot of insurance agents out there that really have no clue on how things are handled in the event of a claim on a vintage car. What they "think" will happen may not correlate to what the claims adjuster actually does.

[The Champ]

Gulliver

Being asked for an appraisal is not a bad thing. It's not bad when, for a higher valued vehicle, the insurance company wants to have the value documented by an appraisal. That's really a sound business practice - it prevents a moral hazard (insuring something for more than it is worth).

I also want to caution on the terminology used - you started fine when you used "agreed value".

But later you stated: "State and agree on your value beforehand, and pay the appropriate premium."

There is a policy known as a "stated value" policy where your premium is based on the value you "state" and "agree" to up front. However, a "stated value" policy does not guarantee that that stated and agreed to value is what you will be paid in the event of a total loss.

A "guaranteed agreed value" is what let's me sleep comfortably at night...

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by wytnyt

a little off topic but did ya know

It is off topic, and will likely turn this discussion in the wrong direction. I'd suggest you start a separate discussion so this one doesn't get derailed.

[mike nixon]

Mine's on an agreed value commercial policy. No issues on claims as of yet and I've had a couple.

MIke

[Gulliver]

Champ- of course you are correct about the verbage and thank you for clarifying.

[elefantrider]

Raising this thread again. Interested to get perspectives on classic vs standard unlimited insurance.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by elefantrider

Raising this thread again. Interested to get perspectives on classic vs standard unlimited insurance.

Driving older car insurance

Disclaimer: I am not a licensed Insurance Professional. Seek advice from a licensed Insurance Professional agency authorized to write policies in your area.

IMHO: Based on my past experience working in the insurance industry and (like most people) having lived in various areas (North, South, East & West) inside and outside of the United States, when it comes to insurance it boils down to this –

• Insurance of any kind is regulated by each state. Each state has a Department of Insurance that regulates.
• I live in Texas. I can not purchase AZ, CA or NY insurance coverage for my TX vehicles, home, business or property. Not even another state style of coverage if TX (my state dept of insurance) prohibits this type of policy and coverage
• All rates are regulated and approved by the state
• Standard and Specialty package offerings must meet each states criterion
• No Fault States coverage’s and prices differ greatly from non-No Fault States
• Same is usually true for ‘In Country’ vs. ‘Out of Country’. Endorsements or riders are generally required (with add’l $ fees) for coverage outside of the U.S.A. Ex: For travel driving to Canada or Mexico or in a rental or personal vehicle there. Often there are exclusions for coverage in those areas aka: no coverage!

My experience is that the above is true for State Farm, Nationwide, Farmers, Farm Bureau, and Independent Agencies including the Collector Car Insurance Agencies that advertise nationally. Be vigilant and check what your state requirements are. And ask the 1-800 (Insert your chosen collector car insurance company here) what options and restrictions are dictated by your state mandated coverage’s.

For older car (collector car) insurance MY experience has been, for example, that our primary policy’s limits of liability, property damage and bodily injury are the foundation of coverage. The collector policy is written upon that foundation of the primary policy. I chose J.C. Taylor over Hagerty due to the lower cost of coverage based on my chosen criteria thru J.C. Taylor and the higher coverage’s of LL/PD/BI matching our Nationwide higher limits. Hagerty only offered the state minimums of LL/PD/BI which IMO was not a risk I was willing to take, AND, their cost was double in price.

Interesting that as I write this, the news report is State Farm is announcing that they are dropping thousands of TX homeowners’ policy holders who live in five coastal counties beginning May 1st. When I worked with State Farm, they (like all insurance companies) usually dropped large numbers of policy holders from time-to-time to reduce their potential pool of risk. Remember, they are in business to make money - period.

“Your results may vary.”