[n2ogpsj462]

I have a couple questions that several unresponded emails to Lunati haven't been able to answer for me. First and this may have been answered but are both intake and exhaust asymmetrical? I only ask because the cam I want uses one of the intake lobes for exhaust. 2nd question is do you have to use a vendor to order a custom cam? I've literally emailed them, called w message and filled out a couple cam suggestion forms just to get them to call or email me back but nada. I procrastinated over the summer because I wasnt quite ready yet but now pissed because they bumped their prices 200+ for the cam/lifter combo

[Steve C.]

As far as I know and from what I've read from Harold Brookshire over the years his UltraDyne lobes were asymmetrical. He designed the Voodoo lobes therefore I'd be very surprised if the were not the same. I suspect Paul Carter has had the most experience with the Voodoo cams hopefully he will chime in here with a opinion or answer.

Also Paul has ordered custom Voodoo cams in the past.

Harold comments on the subject here starting in post #4.........

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...voodoo-xe.html

More here:
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/148...oodoo-cam.html


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[n2ogpsj462]

Thanks I know the voodoo lobes are asymmetrical I see how it looked like I was asking that. Unless I'm mistaken I thought the asymetricals were designed to lay the exhaust valve slower but I wanted to use one of their intakes lobes for my exh unless I'm completely mistaken. I know Paul can order it but I'm across the country and makes no sense for a cam. Pauls knowledge and confidence in these cams were influential in my research. Lunati has pricing and ordering info on their website but apparently don't want to sell cams. At least not to me! I dont like bothering people to take the responsibility of ordering custom stuff because if theres a problem I have to call them. Also another "cam" topic is not what I wanted nor what this board needs but Lunati is p!ssing me off

[Formulajones]

I just ordered and bought 2 custom Lunati hydraulic rollers from Paul within the last 2-3 weeks. So I know they are doing them.

Paul has the inside knowledge and tons of experience with them, I'd ask him.

[Steve C.]

Lunati Tech 662-892-1500

Pontiac custom hydraulic roller cam part number 20519909


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[ponjohn]

I would go through Paul he seems to have a good relationship with them.

I understand all HR are not suited to solid rollers, are the Voodoo HR able to work with a solid roller?

[gtofreek]

Voodoo HR lobes are designed the same both intake and exhaust. Therefore you can use any lobe for either and it's fine. They all open the valve fast and close it slow in the last .050" of lift, especially the last .006".

[Formulajones]

I believe Paul has mentioned on a few occasions he's had conversations with Brookshire and was told that's not a good idea for a number of reasons. Don't know if that was referring to his cams specifically or all cams. Paul could answer that more in depth. Frankly when we want a solid roller, I just buy a solid stick and run it the way it's intended, I'm not a fan of the hybrid deal for a lot of reasons that Paul has explained to me in the past.

[Steve C.]

"I don't go out of my way to recommend people run solid roller lifters on hyd. roller cams, in fact less than 5% of the hyd. roller cams we sell end up with solid roller lifters on them, my personal preference is to run hyd. roller lifters."
Dave Bisschop


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[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

"I don't go out of my way to recommend people run solid roller lifters on hyd. roller cams, in fact less than 5% of the hyd. roller cams we sell end up with solid roller lifters on them, my personal preference is to run hyd. roller lifters."
Dave Bisschop


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Yep Steve, there ya go, less than 5% coming from a Pontiac retailer tells me there aren't as many complaints about the hydraulic roller lifters in Pontiacs as we may be led to believe here, and despite the handful that say it's okay to run a solid on a hydraulic stick, this is not a proven safe combination that has shown longevity or lack of problems simply because the few that do it haven't logged 50,000+ miles or more and don't daily drive these cars either.
From what I've seen and read, the ones that say it works drive their cars seasonal at best, as weekend toys, and are lucky to log 2,000 miles a year. We are talking about less than 5% of the people that even invest in a roller giving their opinions??? That's not solid proof for me that this is a good idea, plus the fact that there are cam manufactures stating they don't recommend it, people much smarter than we are, is enough for me.
This just started as a cheap way for people to avoid the hydraulic roller lifter issues they were having rather than just buy a new stick and do the whole swap, or take the time to find the source of the hydraulic roller issue. Doesn't mean we should be recommending it.

[HWYSTR455]

If you're starting from scratch, it makes no sense to go 'hybrid'. If you're worried about the HYD roller lifters, just buy a solid grind.

Think most are on the same page in that respect.

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[1funride]

Steve C.

What are the specs on the Pontiac custom hydraulic roller cam part number 20519909?
Is there a cam card for it?

Thanks 1funride

[Steve C.]

There are no specific specs, from what I understand that is the part number for a custom Hydraulic roller cam with Voodoo lobes ground with a Pontiac core. You call them and tell them what you want regarding the intake & exhaust lobes and the specific lobe separation desired. Similar to what Jim Butler does here with a Comp Cams product.........

Custom Hyd. Roller Camshaft CCA-Custom-Hyd-Roller

https://butlerperformance.com/i-3006...tegory:1234794

This is what I was told, however I will suggest a call to them to confirm this information. That said, I agree with the comments here regarding a call to Paul Carter (gtofreek). If he is willing that would be the individual I'd personally call for a custom Voodoo camshaft. As I previously stated I suspect Paul Carter has had the most experience with the Voodoo cams here.


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[JLMounce]

^^^ That should be correct. My custom ground comp is like that. It has a "Custom Pontiac" part number that doesn't pertain to anything other than it being custom ground on a Pontiac core. To know what it is, you have to have the cam card. I would assume the Lunati would be the same.

[Dick Boneske]

Maybe a stupid question, but here goes! Why does anyone run solid lifters on a Pontiac street engine? Most are done making power at 6000-6500 rpm.

For those that run 8,000 rpm, solid lifters make sense.

I've heard that valve lift with a hydraulic lifter is less than the cam design because of lifter leakdown. How much leakdown is there at high rpm's? Or, is thee another reason to run solid lifters on a Pontiac street engine?

[HWYSTR455]

I guess you are meaning solid roller? Many run them as an alternative to potential issues with HYD roller lifters. The grind will dictate what the max RPM will be.

The solid crower that I ran was rated at 4-7000 RPM, and a redline of 7500:

https://www.crower.com/camshafts/pon...-cam-284r.html

And yes, it saw that very frequently. On the street. I had it ground on a 113lsa, which helped idle, vacuum, and lower RPM pull. It was soft off the line, and then came on like gang-busters in the mid-range, worked well with street tires. No rev limiter, I just let it eat. I buried the 8k tach on multiple occasions, never had a failure.

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[Steve C.]

Interesting to note on that Crower cam in their catalog for engine application it states, "...designed for fully prepared, high compression all-out racing engines and chassis".

And yet today the ever popular "Old Faithful" hydraulic roller cam might be considered not much different than that custom crower solid roller looking at some of numbers. This knowing you add additional duration when going from a hyd cam to a solid cam. Many find today 234-236 degrees intake duration in a hydraulic cam used in a 455 based combo to be great for nice street performance.

Crower cam- 247 degrees intake duration at .050" lift / .3880" lobe lift / custom 113 lobe separation. OF cam- 236 degrees intake duration at .050" lift / .3800" lobe lift / 112 lobe separation. Since the seat duration is rated at a different tappet lift for the two cams, .020" vs .006" it's hard to compare. But after valve lash is factored if for the solid roller the OF has more net valve lift, 0.570" vs. 0.556".



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[HWYSTR455]

I take what most manufacturers say regarding 'idle quality' and stuff with a grain of salt, it's usually way off in my experience. Granted in my case the lsa change probably helped, but the idle quality I had with that cam with the 461 was very smooth, very little lope at all. I could crawl away from an idle and not have any adverse characteristics. I would tell riders the specs on the cam and it baffled many.

I recall some time ago Steve we had a conversation regarding the difference between hyd and solid duration, and the general consensus is that if you want a similar solid grind as a hyd form you add @10 degrees duration to the solid. That line of thinking was confirmed with conversations I had with a few other folks, and that puts that cam roughly in the same range as the OF. (as you point out).

This time around I will be using the 713 VooDoo hyd roller, on a 110, so will be curious to see the difference in idle, etc, compared to the previous Crower. I suspect it will be only slightly 'rougher' at most.

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[Steve C.]

"I take what most manufacturers say regarding 'idle quality' and stuff with a grain of salt, it's usually way off in my experience."

X2

The amount of extra duration to add going from a hyd to a solid is really confusing, no pat answer or formula. Different from one company to another and within different lobe families of a company. Example, the popular Comp XE hydraulic roller lobe 3315 is rated with 230 degrees at .050" tappet lift. But their XE solid roller lobe 4873 rated with 236 degrees at .050" tappet lift is within 1 degree of duration to the 3315 hydraulic lobe when you look at the amount of duration delivered 'at the valve' at that .050" tappet lift under running conditions on a Spintron machine (w/ 1.5 rocker ratio). The hyd with 240 degrees and the solid with 241 degrees. This after taking into consideration the valve lash on the solid and the lifter give on the hydraulic as you load each under running conditions. That said the benefit goes to the solid roller if you evaluate the numbers under the curve thru out the entire lift curve.

My first solid roller cam was about 29 years ago. At the time my original RAIII 400 engine had a COMP Magnum 280H hyd flat tappet cam installed with 230 at .050". We changed to the Crower 60450 solid roller cam with 233 at .050", no major changes were made to the engine except the cam. With the change there was no significant improvement on the track. However the driveability was a tad bit better with the solid roller. The cost of the upgrade was a hard lesson learned.... the solid roller needed more duration.



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